"you'll never convince them"

[pauraque_bk]

There's a wank going on that's as old as the hills (aren't they all), and a lot of people are making extraordinary fools of themselves (don't they always). The epicenter wasn't in my part of fandom; my windows rattled but nothing fell down.

It does strike me, though, that in these sorts of things there's sometimes a tendency to suggest that all argument is useless because you'll never convince your opponents that you're right. I really can't agree there. If your point is a good and valid one, you should make it, not for your opponents, but for those reading along.

On the internets there are always more lurkers than participants. The ones opening their mouths are the ones who already have a strong opinion, and the more they talk, the more they have invested in never giving any ground or learning anything new, because in their eyes that would not be learning, but "losing".

The ones *not* speaking are the ones who aren't sure. Those are people your argument can reach, whether or not you ever find out about it. (Just try not to claim that the lurkers support you in email.)


And seriously, "victim privilege"? Bitch, PLEASE.


ETA: There's now a rundown on unfunnybusiness if you really want to know. Warning for nausea at others' ridiculous behavior, at the very least...

Comments

[pauraque]

The wank's about warnings. It seems to have started when one person made a post about how warnings for rape in fic are really, really necessary because of the hurt it could cause to rape survivors otherwise, and then some asshats piled on bitching about how having to put warnings ~violated their artistic vision~ and so on. Talking about supposed "victim privilege" is how at least one person tried to turn it around on the OP. Barf.

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Went to the unfunnybusiness and I just.. whoa. Seriously?

[pauraque]

Hoo boy, and I just found out why the name Zvi sounded so darn familiar... she's one of the leaders of Dreamwidth.

Prrrrrroblematic.

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Oh fuck. Holy erupting can of worms Batman!

[idlerat.livejournal.com]

Zvi was an early booster of Dreamwidth and a volunteer, but she's not "one of the leaders" in the sense of being on the staff. She's posted a lot of much linked stuff about it, though.

Denise, however, *is* the co-owner of Dreamwidth, and she has posted that she will not warn, and is disturbed by the language of moral absolutism blah blah.

I actually don't think Zvi was one of the worst offenders here. I think some of her stuff was somewhat misquoted and misunderstood. She has a very abrasive and often unclear style.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm sure that's totally the experience of being victimized by anything. Great! Now I get to force people to feel badly enough to do things for me! Except for those people who won't even warn for a fic where triggering somebody is a fairly common result of not doing that! Where's the privilege, exactly?