pauraque_bk | PoA 21

PoA 21: Hermione's Secret

Okay, that just sounds like a dirty mail-order catalog.

'Black had bewitched them, I saw it immediately. A Confundus Charm, to judge by their behaviour. [...] They weren't responsible for their actions. On the other hand, their interference might have permitted Black to escape [...] They've got away with a great deal before now ... I'm afraid it's given them a rather high opinion of themselves [...]' (283)

neotoma has pointed out, if Snape really thinks they were Confunded, he's being very charitable. However, given that he goes right on to blame them after saying they aren't to blame, I doubt that what he says here is entirely sincere. He's making himself appear charitable to the Minister.

'And yet -- is it good for [Harry] to be given so much special treatment? Personally I try to treat him like any other student[...]' (283)

Of course, this isn't entirely sincere either (or if it is, Snape is very unaware of his own behavior). However, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a kernel of truth in it: Failing to teach Harry self-control could prove extremely dangerous, not just to Harry, but to the world in general.

'[...]I bound and gagged Black, naturally, conjured stretchers and brought them all straight back to the castle.' (284)

While our heroes had no problem dragging Snape along with his head knocking against the ceiling (277), he gave them the consideration of stretchers. Admittedly, he wants to make a good impression on the authorities, but still.

I was puzzled at first why he gagged Sirius, but it makes sense: He didn't want him to be capable of an incantation.

'You surely don't believe a word of Black's story?' Snape whispered, his eyes fixed on Dumbledore's face.
'I wish to speak to Harry and Hermione alone,' Dumbledore repeated.
Snape took a step towards Dumbledore.
'Sirius Black showed he was capable of murder at the age of sixteen,' he breathed. 'You haven't forgotten that, Headmaster? You haven't forgotten that he once tried to kill me?'
'My memory is as good as it ever was, Severus,' said Dumbledore quietly. (286-287)

Ouch. Snape's desire for Dumbledore's support and approval is very much palpable here -- Snape is asking Dumbledore to choose between him and prodigal-son Sirius, and Dumbledore's choice is very clear.

Harry moved his head a few inches to get a clear view of the distant front doors. Dumbledore, Fudge, the old Committee member and Macnair the executioner were coming down the steps. (292)

'It was tied here!' said the executioner furiously. 'I saw it! Just here!'
'How extraordinary,' said Dumbledore. There was a note of amusement in his voice.
[...]
'Macnair, if Buckbeak has indeed been stolen, do you really think the thief will have led him away on foot?' said Dumbledore, still sounding amused. 'Search the skies, if you will ... Hagrid, I could do with a cup of tea. Or a large brandy.' (294)

We're pretty evidently supposed to think that this Dumbledore, Chapter16!Dumbledore, knows that it's Harry and Hermione who have made off with Buckbeak. If he doesn't, his reaction is very strange.

There was a swishing noise, and the thud of an axe. The executioner seemed to have swung it into the fence in anger. And then came the howling, and this time they could hear Hagrid's words through his sobs. (294)

This is around where I start to get a tachyon headache. It seems that even in Chapter 16, Buckbeak was never really executed, which is consistent with the way the time travel device is presented throughout the chapter.

'Here comes Lupin!' said Harry, as they saw another figure sprinting down the stone steps and haring towards the Willow. Harry looked up at the sky. Clouds were obscuring the moon completely. (296)

Again, this is nonsense. JKR's editor should have gotten this one.

'What happened to the other boy? Ron?' said Sirius urgently. (303)

As soon as Sirius is set to escape, his mind clears enough to think of Ron's safety. However, I suspect he's wondering if Peter's curse killed him, not whether he's all right after being dragged off and having his leg broken by Padfoot.

The time travel device is troublesome for a couple of reasons. One is that it's a deus ex machina -- groundwork is laid for it, in Hermione's exhaustion and odd class schedule, but... what does it have to do with the rest of the book?

Another is that it calls into question one of the primary themes of the series, that our choices make us who we are. Dumbledore warns them seriously that they must not be seen, they must not change anything but what he tells them, etc., but once they actually go back, there's no indication that they can change anything -- they're merely fulfilling the course that's already set for them. If they'd made any small accidental change -- any at all -- I'd have less of a problem with the whole thing.

Narratively, it's a stumbling block. The emotional climax is clearly the Shrieking Shack, and on first reading, I thought the book took a bit too long to end after that. After that catharsis, introducing a major plot point was somewhat exhausting.

My assumption is that the time travel element will be very important later on in the series -- the Knight2King theory, or something equally huge -- or else JKR wouldn't have bothered introducing it at all. But considering PoA as a stand-alone novel, this chapter just doesn't feel as tightly woven-in as the rest of the book.

Past re-read posts are here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Instead of an explanation, and maybe even some recognition for his part in saving the kids' lives, Dumbledore stands there and twinkles (as was mentioned in a comment above). He gives the impression that he finds the whole situation funny.

Exactly. This is where I think *Snape* starts losing his faith in Dumbeldore, and begins to question him -- when Dumbledore publicly undercuts him and disbelieves him. Faux-Moody's accusation in GoF (in "The Egg and the Eye") upsets Snape so much because Snape actually has reason to believe that Dumbledore doesn't trust him. By OotP, Snape is at the point where he will defy Dumbledore's orders (at least when Dumbledore isn't there standing over him) when he throws Harry out of his office.

That statement, and Dumbledore's words to Snape in this chapter, sound like a barely veiled way of saying "you owe me, you have secrets of your own, so do as you're told and don't question my decisions."

I think Dumbledore took exactly the wrong tactic with Snape in this chapter. Shutting him up was effective, but told Snape that his efforts and loyalty were worth less than persuing the law and capturing a known murderer. Since Snape needs to be respected and valued, Dumbledore managed to convey that he was neither in one quick statement.

I don't know how else Dumbledore could have handled the situation, but it makes me think that for all his charisma, the Headmaster has a very superficial understanding of other people. Later revelations in OotP about Dumbledore's handling of the Prefect postion -- giving it to Lupin when he was so unable to handle it, and giving it to Ron over Harry for weak reasons (either Dean or Neville would have been better choices, imo) -- makes me wonder how the heck Dumbledore got to be so respected anyway.

Are wizards that bad at picking leaders? Or that blinded by war-heroism? Or has Dumbledore let all his press after defeating Grindelwald go to his head and degrade whatever talent with people he used to have?

This is where I think *Snape* starts losing his faith in Dumbeldore, and begins to question him -- when Dumbledore publicly undercuts him and disbelieves him. Faux-Moody's accusation in GoF (in "The Egg and the Eye") upsets Snape so much because Snape actually has reason to believe that Dumbledore doesn't trust him. By OotP, Snape is at the point where he will defy Dumbledore's orders (at least when Dumbledore isn't there standing over him) when he throws Harry out of his office

and this has another potentially dangerous outcome if Snape doesn't have a *very* good reason for sticking with the Order. I don't personally believe that Snape will ever turn back to Voldemort and the DE crowd but Dumbledore doesn't exactly give him a lot of reason not to. In a more simplified and less life-or-death situation, if I were Snape I'd be tempted to tell Dumbledore where to put his Sherbert Lemons the next time!

Or has Dumbledore let all his press after defeating Grindelwald go to his head and degrade whatever talent with people he used to have?

I don't know. All I know is that Dumbledore's recklessness in leaving things for the kids to get on with, without someone watching over their movements, concerned me as early as PS/SS. And his errors in judgement, his inability to read and handle people like Snape and Harry, have concerned me more and more with each book. All the more so because they're not just a couple of slightly prickly personalities who've had personal issues in their lives that require them to be handled with care, they're also people who because of their background and talents are important to the Order and its chances of success against Voldemort. Losing their confidence completely could be disastrous. Of course, it's always possible that at some point in book six or seven the two of them will find common ground in their disappointment in how Dumbledore has repaid their faith and loyalty, and finally achieve some measure of rapport. :-)

I too think that the prefect appointments weren't particularly well handled by the school, although as fifth year prefects they're still the lowest on the totem pole and to some extent therefore those appointments could be seen as being experiments... where the character-building of the kids' reaction to who does and doesn't get given that authority is more important than actually appointing the most effective kids to the job. So Remus probably got made prefect as much to make James and Sirius think about why they hadn't been as because he might be able to keep them under control. Ron got it because he needed a morale boost; Harry didn't because he'd already had his Quidditch triumph and the TriWizarding tournament and needed to learn to take a back seat to others from time to time.

It'll be interesting to see whether there are more than two prefects per house in the sixth and seventh years.

I don't know how else Dumbledore could have handled the situation, but it makes me think that for all his charisma, the Headmaster has a very superficial understanding of other people.

Yes, to be fair, with Snape in the state he was in there was little Dumbledore could say that would not sound dismissive and patronizing. He doesn't even try, though. I guess I'm a less charitable person when it comes to Dumbledore, so I would say he doesn't care to understand other people. As long as he knows enough about them to be able to effectively control/manipulate them, that is enough for him. He seems to give Snape just enough respect and recognition to keep him loyal. I guess my opinion of Dumbledore has gone very much downhill since OOTP...

And thank you, by the way, for reminding me about the Faux!Moody scene in GOF! This is off-topic but I've been thinking about Snape's role as a "spy" for the order, and this is more evidence for me that Voldemort knows exactly where Snape's loyalty is - he would have gotten a full report from Crouch Jr.

this is more evidence for me that Voldemort knows exactly where Snape's loyalty is - he would have gotten a full report from Crouch Jr.

What would Crouch have told him? Dumbledore didn't spill the beans about Snape at Crouch's trial, and given that Kakaroff tried to trade Snape's name at *his* trial, it wasn't known among the incarcerated DEs that Snape had turned on them.

Crouch never meets up with Voldemort again after he comes to school. I suppose they could have been in contact some other way, though.

I was thinking about the conversation between Snape and Moody (who was really Crouch) in the Egg and the Eye, when it appears Crouch/Moody knows exactly the situation Snape is in (the whole bit about Dumbledore trusting Snape, and some "spots" that never come off...)

But you're right, Crouch was Kissed at the end of the book, wasn't he? He never went back to Voldemort (I love when I forget big stuff like this!) Voldemort knew of Crouch's plan and I guess they could have communicated throughout that year - but we don't know, which leaves the big question of what Voldemort knows about Snape still unanswered.

I thinkit would be nice to see Severus Snape defying Voldie because he, Severus, sees Voldie as a bad guy in and of himself and not need the approval of Dumbledore ( which, by the way, he does have- he has his job and position of authority).

Another thing- about age: Severus is about what, 38? There is a time is a man's (or womans) life when they start to cut away from there their parental figures, and it happens at weird times- either in the early 20's or their late 30s. And JKR is incredibly perceptive in showing this strain. Severus can fight Voldie because DEs are Teh Suckeh. But he does not need to have blind obedience to Dumbledore- not anymore.

PoA 21

Re: Snape and Dumbledore

Re: Snape and Dumbledore

Re: Snape and Dumbledore

Re: Snape and Dumbledore

Re: Snape and Dumbledore

Re: Snape and Dumbledore

Re: Snape and Dumbledore