pauraque_bk (
pauraque_bk) wrote2005-10-24 11:59 pm
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GoF 25
HPANA: 'Goblet of Fire' running time confirmed.
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire has a running time of 156 minutes and 54 seconds ... This length makes it the second longest Potter film after Chamber of Secrets, which clocked in at 161 minutes, even though the book is twice as long.
Well, they needed the time to get through that whole soft-focus There's-No-Hogwarts-Without-Hagrid sequence at the end, didn't they? Vital stuff.
GoF 25: The Egg and the Eye
Oh, this is a juicy one. Get your nightshirts on, and let's go!
But when he actually becomes a Prefect... well, I guess he has more pressing concerns. [ETA: Excuse my lapse. Harry is not now, nor has he ever been, a Prefect. I have been smoking the crack cocaines.]
This, of course, is notable as the only point in canon where Harry actually bathes. That's right -- six years, innumerable sporting events, chase scenes, faceplants in the mud -- one bath. He'd better make it count.
Lucky for him, the Prefect's bathroom is ridiculously ornate:
sistermagpie mentioned in her great essay What Makes Myrtle Moan?, she notes that although Harry's modesty here seems childish, Myrtle reflects the characters' increasing levels of sexual maturity, even though she, as a ghost, shouldn't really be maturing at all! But Harry is focused on the egg's clue; he completely ignores (or doesn't understand) her comment about watching oh-so-handsome Cedric lying there naked.
In any case, Myrtle helps Harry figure out his clue. Not for any ulterior reason, I don't think... she just enjoys telling him what to do.
All that's actually at stake for Harry here is getting in trouble for being out of bed past curfew. Not really that big of a deal, considering it's happened dozens of times. The person who really ends up in the hot seat is Snape, as follows:
It's a little disappointing to me that Snape is so imperious with Filch here, and Filch so submissive to him. From the bandaging scene in PS/SS, you might have thought they were pals. And I do love me some Snape/Filch.
It shouldn't surprise Snape that "Moody" would know he was a Death Eater, though. Judging from the Pensieve scene we'll get to in a few chapters, I'd say it was common knowledge among magical law enforcement.
When I visited JKR's site, I noticed another relevant FAQ article: How did Harry get the Marauder's Map back at the end of 'Goblet of Fire'?
Previous GoF posts are saved in memories here.
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire has a running time of 156 minutes and 54 seconds ... This length makes it the second longest Potter film after Chamber of Secrets, which clocked in at 161 minutes, even though the book is twice as long.
Well, they needed the time to get through that whole soft-focus There's-No-Hogwarts-Without-Hagrid sequence at the end, didn't they? Vital stuff.
GoF 25: The Egg and the Eye
Oh, this is a juicy one. Get your nightshirts on, and let's go!
His immediate reaction was that it would be worth becoming a Prefect just to use this bathroom. (399)
This, of course, is notable as the only point in canon where Harry actually bathes. That's right -- six years, innumerable sporting events, chase scenes, faceplants in the mud -- one bath. He'd better make it count.
Lucky for him, the Prefect's bathroom is ridiculously ornate:
softly lit [...] candle-filled chandelier [...] white marble [...] a hundred golden taps [...] diving board [...] linen curtains [...] pink and blue bubbles the size of footballs [...] heavily perfumed purple clouds hovering over the surface of the water [...] so deep that his feet barely touched the bottom (399-400)You guys get the idea. The tub also has the awesome mystical property of filling up in "a very short time considering its size". Well hot damn! Sign me up!
'I'd try putting it in the water, if I were you.'I joke a lot about the double entendres in the books, but this is just plain sexual. As
Harry had swallowed a considerable amount of bubbles in shock. He stood up, spluttering, and saw the ghost of a very glum-looking girl sitting cross-legged on top of one of the taps. It was Moaning Myrtle, who was usually to be heard sobbing in the S-bend of a toilet three floors below.
'Myrtle!' Harry said in outrage. 'I'm -- I'm not wearing anything!' (400)
'What d'you do, sneak up here in the evenings to watch the Prefects take baths?'
'Sometimes,' said Myrtle, rather slyly[...] (401)
'[Cedric] lay there talking to himself for ages about it. Ages and ages ... nearly all the bubbles had gone...'
'Underwater ...' Harry said slowly. 'Myrtle... what lives in the lake, apart from the giant squid?' (403)
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In any case, Myrtle helps Harry figure out his clue. Not for any ulterior reason, I don't think... she just enjoys telling him what to do.
Peeves was not the only thing moving [on the map]. A single dot was flitting around a room in the bottom left-hand corner -- Snape's office. But the dot wasn't labelled 'Severus Snape' ... it was Bartemius Crouch. (405)I find this less troublesome than the "Why didn't Fred, George, or Harry notice Peter on the map?" question, for three reasons: 1) Barty Crouch Sr has been hanging around the school quite a bit, so seeing him wouldn't be odd to Harry, 2) the real Moody is locked in a trunk in "Moody's" office, which wouldn't be odd either, and 3) unlike in PoA, Harry just doesn't use the map very much in this book.
'Filch? What's going on?'Snape does favor his gray underthings, doesn't he. (You were expecting black silk, perhaps?)
Filch stopped a few steps below Harry, and turned. At the foot of the stairs stood the only person who could make Harry's situation worse -- Snape. He was wearing a long grey nightshirt and he looked livid. (407)
All that's actually at stake for Harry here is getting in trouble for being out of bed past curfew. Not really that big of a deal, considering it's happened dozens of times. The person who really ends up in the hot seat is Snape, as follows:
'Filch, I don't give a damn about that wretched poltergeist, it's my office that--'BEST. LINE. EVER. If this isn't in the movie, I shall demand a refund.
Clunk. Clunk. Clunk.
Snape stopped talking very abruptly. He and Filch both looked down at the foot of the stairs. Harry saw Mad-Eye Moody limp into sight through the narrow gap between their heads. Moody was wearing his old travelling cloak over his nightshirt, and leaning on his staff as usual.
'Pyjama party, is it?' he growled up the stairs. (408-409)
It's a little disappointing to me that Snape is so imperious with Filch here, and Filch so submissive to him. From the bandaging scene in PS/SS, you might have thought they were pals. And I do love me some Snape/Filch.
'Professor Snape and I heard noises, Professor,' said Filch at once. 'Peeves the poltergeist, throwing things around as usual -- and then Professor Snape discovered that someone had broken into his off--'I can't pin down why he doesn't want "Moody" to know someone's broken into his office. He doesn't have anything to hide, does he?
'Shut up!' Snape hissed to Filch. (409)
'Reckon they were after potion ingredients, eh?' said Moody. 'Not hiding anything else in your office, are you?'Here I was going to make my usual remark about fanon!Snape not turning funny colors or having pulsing veins or spitting in rage and so on, but it seems a bit unsporting given that Snapefic production in general seems to have taken a distinct downturn since HBP. What's up with that? Fandom doesn't think he's guilty, do they?
Harry saw the edge of Snape's sallow face turn a nasty brick colour, the vein in his temple pulsing more rapidly. (409)
'You know I'm hiding nothing, Moody,' he said, in a soft and dagnerous voice, 'as you've searched my office pretty thoroughly yourself.'Oh-ho, now it's on. As we saw with the Karkaroff scene, Dumbledore is Snape's trump card -- his protector. By suggesting that D's protection and trust might not be so certain, Junior really hits him where it hurts.
Moody's face twisted into a smile. 'Auror's privilege, Snape. Dumbledore told me to keep an eye--'
'Dumbledore happens to trust me,' said Snape, through clenched teeth. 'I refuse to believe that he gave you orders to search my office!' (409-410)
''Course Dumbledore trusts you,' growled Moody. 'He's a trusting man, isn't he? Believes in second chances. But me -- I say there are spots that don't come off, Snape. Spots that never come off, d'you know what I mean?'As is often the case when Snape gets upset, he regresses to behaving like a petulant, hyperdramatic child. "You're not the boss of me! I, the Half-Blood Prince, shall prowl about wherever I please!"
Snape suddenly did something very strange. He seized his left forearm convulsively with his right hand, as though something on it had hurt him.
Moody laughed. 'Get back to bed, Snape.'
'You don't have the authority to send me anywhere!' Snape hissed, letting go of his arm as though angry with himself. 'I have as much right to prowl about this school after dark as you do!' (410)
It shouldn't surprise Snape that "Moody" would know he was a Death Eater, though. Judging from the Pensieve scene we'll get to in a few chapters, I'd say it was common knowledge among magical law enforcement.
Snape had reached out for [the map], a horrible expression of dawning comprehension on his face-- (410)I don't know if Harry quite gets this, but Snape's just realized that he let slip in front of Harry that he has the Mark. Harry doesn't really understand what that means yet, but Snape doesn't know that.
'There's nothing there, Snape!' barked Moody. 'But I'll be happy to tell the Headmaster how quickly your mind jumped to Harry Potter! [...] Dumbledore's very interested to know who's got it in for that boy!'I think everyone here knows that Snape did not put Harry's name in the Goblet -- even Harry never seems to really consider the possibility. Junior sure is having a good time messing with Snape's head, though. I wonder if they had a rivalry even before Snape turned back to the Good side.
[...]
'I merely thought,' said Snape, in a voice of forced calm, 'that if Potter was wandering around after hours again ... it's an unfortunate habit of his ... he should be stopped. For -- for his own safety.' (411)
'I think I will go back to bed,' Snape said curtly.We get no reaction shots from Filch throughout this whole exchange, and when they're done, all he can think about is Peeves. He doesn't understand the gravity of what's just taken place.
'Best idea you've had all night,' said Moody. 'Now, Filch, if you'll just give me that egg--'
'No!' said Filch, clutching the egg as though it was his firstborn son. 'Professor Moody, this is evidence of Peeves's treachery!' (412)
'Merlin's beard,' Moody whispered, staring at the map, his magical eye going haywire. 'This ... this is some map, Potter!' (412)This is maybe the one point where Junior has a flash of doubt about his (Voldemort's) plan. He frantically scans the map to see if it shows him as "Moody" or "Crouch", then hurries to assure himself that Harry believes it was Senior he saw.
'Potter ...' he said slowly, 'you didn't happen, by any chance, to see who broke into Snape's office, did you? On this map, I mean?'Oh, but he is! Standing right next to the dot labeled 'Harry Potter'. You'll notice, of course, that Harry doesn't actually get a good look at the map -- Junior makes sure of that, and then asks to borrow it. Harry lets him, naturally.
'Er ... yeah, I did ...' Harry admitted. 'It was Mr Crouch.'
Moody's magical eye whizzed over the entire surface of the map. He looked suddenly alarmed.
'Crouch?' he said. 'You're -- you're sure, Potter?'
'Positive,' said Harry.
'Well, he's not here any more,' said Moody, his eye still whizzing over the map. (413)
When I visited JKR's site, I noticed another relevant FAQ article: How did Harry get the Marauder's Map back at the end of 'Goblet of Fire'?
'Er ... Professor Moody ... why d'you reckon Mr Crouch wanted to look around Snape's office?'Junior had to tell a direct lie a moment ago to cover for himself, but now he's back to his usual tack of speaking the literal truth. Although I certainly think he enjoys the irony, I also wonder if he's trying to avoid setting off any magical devices that detect lies.
[...]
'Put it this way, Potter,' Moody muttered finally, 'they say old Mad-Eye's obsessed with catching Dark wizards ... but Mad-Eye's nothing -- nothing -- compared to Barty Crouch.' (413)
'Oh, if there's one thing I hate,' he muttered, more to himself than Harry, and his magical eye was fixed on the bottom left-hand corner of the map, 'it's a Death Eater who walked free...'The bottom left being the location of Snape's office. It's not exactly hot news for us that Snape was a DE -- nor did it really feel like hot news when I first read the book. What about the rest of you? Think allllll the way back to when you first read GoF. Were you surprised?
Harry stared at him. Could Moody possibly mean what Harry thought he meant? (414)
Previous GoF posts are saved in memories here.
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*reads JKR's non-answer*
IOW: What is this 'continuity' of which you speak?
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(icon meant for JKR, not you, of course)
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But Harry never becomes a prefect.
Good commentary as usual-nothing to add on my part.
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And how could I forget Dumbledore's Single Dramatic Tear when he explains why Harry couldn't be one? Tsk. I must have blocked it out.
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I would like a share of the market in wizarding cologne.
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Which makes me wonder if the bath is co-ed, or has different hours for the two sexes. Not that that would matter to Harry. :)
And now, it occurs to me how completely ludicrous, in kind of a wonderful way, the whole concept of a Prefect's Bath really is. Did you ever see that Roseanne episode where she fantasizes about her secret bathroom? I think JKR was having that kind of moment when she came up with this.
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Here's my big question about the map: why didn't it show the real Moody in his trunk? Does the trunk shield him or something? What about "the map doesn't lie"? Because even sleeping people are on there; their dots just don't move. Also, how did Snape recognise it? It's just a folded piece of parchment; Snape never saw it as an actual map in PoA, unless he saw it back in the Marauders' days.
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So, no, you're not on crack. Or, hell, I don't know, maybe you are, but you didn't imagine that line, at any rate. :-D
I think that
Out in the dark corridor, Harry examined the Marauders Map to check that the coast was still clear. Yes, the dots belonging to Filch and his cat, Mrs. Norris, were safely in their office . .. nothing else seemed to be moving apart from Peeves, though he was bouncing around the trophy room on the floor above.
One possible interpretation of that paragraph is that part of its purpose is precisely to establish that Harry isn't paying any attention to stationary dots -- and therefore to excuse his not noticing any discrepancy when "Moody" comes across him a bit later in the scene.
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Yes, that could be. I had forgotten for a moment that false!Moody was in Snape's office, not Moody's, too. That could be.
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Something about that "indignantly" totally cracks me up. It just makes Harry sound so very prissy, doesn't it? I have no idea how realistic a response that actually would be for a fourteen-year-old boy - maybe a lot of boys really are a bit defensive about nudity at that age - but it somehow makes me giggle nonetheless.
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I wonder if they had a rivalry even before Snape turned back to the Good side.
"Another old friend," growled Moody. "I've been looking forward to a chat with old Snape..."
Yeah, there's definitely always seemed to me to be some history between little Barty and good old Severus. What that history might have been, though, is left pretty open. They could have always been rivals. Or, it could be that Crouch once genuinely respected or admired Snape, and therefore now feels really betrayed by him.
I enjoy the latter idea a bit more, but given their respective positions in the various social hierarchies of the wizarding world, I think that I consider the former one on the whole more plausible.
All the Barty dialogue here is just great.
“I can make good use of this . .. this might be exactly what I’ve been looking for. . . .
Yeah. He'll find use for it later on, all right. It'll help him to hunt his father down in the woods and kill him.
Heh. I probably really shouldn't be grinning when I type that, should I.
What about the rest of you? Think allllll the way back to when you first read GoF. Were you surprised?
Certainly pleased. A friend of mine and I had come up with "Snape used to be a follower of Voldemort, but then he recanted" as a speculation before GoF came out, but at the time, neither of us really believed that it would be canon. Even so, we had both found it an extremely compelling reading, and so we'd pretty much resolved that, until and unless the theory was directly contradicted by canon, we were going to read the character that way whether the author wanted us to or not.
So although it was a bit of a surprise, it also didn't actually feel surprising. If that makes sense?
Anyway, something about the darker tone of GoF - evident even from the very early chapters - made our reading seem pretty solid to me from the very start of the novel. By the time I had reached this chapter, I had already become pretty well convinced that it would indeed turn out to be true.
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Possibly Crouch Jr. was the one to convince Voldemort that Snape was really Dumbledore's Man. Or, it could have been Pettigrew. Either way, it would seem that by the time of the graveyard scene, Voldemort had no faith in Snape's loyalty.
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Maybe he suspects that 'Moody' isn't really Moody. Wouldn't Dumbledore have clued in that there was mischief afoot, and perhaps he let
his right-hand manSnape know? Surely they must have talked about Karkoff's worries.no subject
Uh-uh, doesn't work for me. I mean, the way I've always read it was that the look was 'horrible' from Harry's POV: he sees what he's been fearing; he sees Snape understanding that he's there.
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(Anonymous) 2005-10-26 04:51 pm (UTC)(link)"Snape had reached out for [the map], [an] [...] expression of dawning comprehension on his face-- [and Harry is horrified that Snape has realised he is there and that he will be caught, not only out of bounds, but listening in]"
- Clara
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One of the things I didn't like about GoF though was the whole Moody/Crouch polyjuice affair becasue it threw up too many questions. Now that we know Snape is a Legilimens, isn't it possible that he had his doubts about Moody? Reading this again, Snape does seem to react to the person he assumes is real Moody but I can't help feeling he should have had an inkling something wasn't quite right here. If he didn't then I can only imagine Snape wanted as little to do with Moody as possible and therefore kept his distance.
I also have issues about how real!Moody survived in his trunk all that time.
Myrtle is fabulous - I love to think of her drooling over Cedric as the bubbles disappear - so much subtext!!
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Interesting point, but I still think it's a bigger question as to why the *other* Legilimens in the school -- Dumbledore -- didn't notice at some point, even if he wasn't trying to delve for secrets in Moody's head. In Snape's case, I could easily see Snape avoiding Moody's eyes out of concern that Moody, as an Auror, would himself be a powerful Legilimens. Even though Snape is working for the light (as he believes Moody to be), there's no shortage of thoughts he'd certainly prefer keep safe from Moody.
I also have issues about how real!Moody survived in his trunk all that time.
Well, now there you go being bothered by little things like reality. ;-)
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I think that's it, as even Harry notices that Snape "was ignoring Moody's eye, whether magical or normal."(from the beginning of Chapter Fourteen)
And even if Snape wasn't scared of Moody and did notice something "off" about him, he probably wouldn't report it to Dumbledore; after what happened in PoA, Snape probably thought Dumbledore wouldn't believe him.
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I was very surprised by the revelation that Snape was a DE. I clearly remember the first time I read the book, and I must have totally glossed over the bit where Dumbledore reveals Snape as a former DE at Karkaroff's trial, because I remember being absolutely *floored* when Snape showed his Dark Mark to Fudge at the end. I'm hopeless when it comes to figuring out the ends of movies and books and such; I think I'm the only person on the planet who didn't see the end of The Sixth Sense or The Usual Suspects coming.
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This chapter really is hilarious. I highly recommend
You know I love Myrtle here--really, some of the best weirdos come out in this chapter. We've got Snape at his worst in his grey underthings (honestly, doesn't he just do his clothes in the same laundry as everyone else at Hogwarts? Does he ask the house-elves to make his stuff grey?), Crouch showing up on the map and doing some of his best telling-too-much-truth, Filch just wanting to get Peeves and Myrtle being a big perv.
One of the things I think works so well about the DEs--something to counteract their complete ineptness when it comes to doing actual evil or planning anything--is the hints of all this backstory between them. Barty does know Snape--they were both very young first time round.
Personally, I think Snape's reaction here, much like his "I am not a coward!" HBP, suggests that he's not Evil. He doesn't sound afraid that Dumbledore doesn't really trust him so much as proud of Dumbledore's trust and insecure about it on a personal level.
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Just had to say thanks for providing me with a much-needed chuckle on this otherwise grim morning.
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*quotes from own ramblings on the subject*
On the surface, we have the superior ploughing through his subordinate. Snape insists, Filch protests, end of story. But squint a little for subtext. For instance, Snape's request that Filch join him is rather polite (for Snape.) Conversely, there's a hint of passive-aggressiveness in Filch's "plaintive" excuses; he expects Snape to understand how important getting rid of Peeves is to him. Snape in turn sounds as though he habitually hears altogether too much about that poltergeist. Had they not been interrupted by Moody, I can equally picture either Filch giving in and sullenly consenting to the search (sighing heavily all the while,) or Snape rolling his eyes, making a scathing remark, and stomping off after 'the intruder' by himself.
I could picture a not so dissimilar exchange between Molly and Arthur.
*pets poor Filch* He understands that Snape has been under a lot of pressure lately. :-P
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she just enjoys telling him what to do.
You go, Myrtle!
(You were expecting black silk, perhaps?)
The sad thing is, that even after this (and after OotP and the Infamous Underpants) people still write Snape wearing black, velvet/silk/cashmere/covered-in-embroidered-and-jeweled-snakes undergarments. Why fandom? Why? *sheds a single tear of sorrow*
Here I was going to make my usual remark about fanon!Snape not turning funny colors or having pulsing veins or spitting in rage and so on
*sighs* If only...
As is often the case when Snape gets upset, he regresses to behaving like a petulant, hyperdramatic child. "You're not the boss of me! I, the Half-Blood Prince, shall prowl about wherever I please!"
Baha! It's so damn true.
I've been having a good laugh re-reading all the Snape parts in previous books and adding an "I, the Half-Blood Prince!" after everything he says.I really wish there was more ridiculous, childish Snape in fanfiction. Actually been thinking about making a post on why there isn't...
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SNAPE: "I, Professor Severus Snape, the Half-Blood Prince, master of this school, command you to yield the information you conceal!! GRAGH!" *stabinates Marauder's Map savagely*
HARRY: "Erm." *edges away slowly*
Oh Snape.
It's funny cuz it's true.
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softly lit [...] candle-filled chandelier [...] white marble [...] a hundred golden taps [...] diving board [...] linen curtains [...] pink and blue bubbles the size of footballs [...] heavily perfumed purple clouds hovering over the surface of the water [...] so deep that his feet barely touched the bottom (399-400)
When you quote it like that, it aches to be renamed the "MarySue Bathroom". Although, a bath that size reminds me of the Roman baths and scads of men bathing together.
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I really don't understand why Snape didn't just tell Dumbledore about Crouch!Moody wanting to search his office. I'm sure this would have started something between Dumbledore and Crouch!Moody that maybe could have helped in figuring out that Crouch was impersonating Moody.
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But the wizarding world at large still doesn't know about the Mark being tattooed on the DEs...or at least that's the impression I had.
'they say old Mad-Eye's obsessed with catching Dark wizards ... but Mad-Eye's nothing -- nothing -- compared to Barty Crouch.'
Erk. In the US edition it's "but I'm nothing" etc. I was trying to make something having to do with the father-son relationship out of that, but apparently I was barking up the wrong tree. Feh.
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Yesterday I got so sidetracked by that essay (and some essays that people posted links to in the comments), that I never got back to reading your analysis here.
I'll just add that "the eye" in the title may also refer to Myrtle's ogling.
But Harry is focused on the egg's clue; he completely ignores (or doesn't understand) her comment about watching oh-so-handsome Cedric lying there naked.
Is Harry the most sexually clueless character or what? Talk about an unreliable narrator.
A single dot was flitting around a room in the bottom left-hand corner --
Flitting!
'Pyjama party, is it?' he growled up the stairs. (408-409)
BEST. LINE. EVER. If this isn't in the movie, I shall demand a refund.
I'm probably the only one reading this who now has an Annette Funicello earworm. ("Hey, everybody, it's the latest craze, having a party in your pj's....")
As is often the case when Snape gets upset, he regresses to behaving like a petulant, hyperdramatic child. "You're not the boss of me! I, the Half-Blood Prince, shall prowl about wherever I please!"
Well put.
I don't know if Harry quite gets this, but Snape's just realized that he let slip in front of Harry that he has the Mark.
Oh, OK. This is like the "triumphant gleam" in Dumbledore's eye. I don't know what JKR is getting at.
'No!' said Filch, clutching the egg as though it was his firstborn son. 'Professor Moody, this is evidence of Peeves's treachery!' (412)
Treachery to the school I assume. Because then Harry might lose? So Filch is not a Cedric supporter? I'm also trying not to imagine Filch with a son (or sons). It's like the "beloved nephew" line (Book 3?), how would these characters know what happy family life is like?
When I visited JKR's site, I noticed another relevant FAQ article: How did Harry get the Marauder's Map back at the end of 'Goblet of Fire'?
I find her FAQ hilariously inadequate for the most part. She does seem to think she has no need to state "the obvious," even when quite clearly her books are so complex/sloppy that people can and do spend years trying to process them. But a simpler/smoother writer wouldn't be as much fun.
What about the rest of you? Think allllll the way back to when you first read GoF. Were you surprised?
The main thing I remember about GoF is liking it best so far. (Still true.) Ron/Hermione surprised me. The Maze and afterwards surprised me. But Snape, heck, he's a complicated man, she could say almost anything about him and I'd believe it.
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But no one loves him but his womaaaaann.....
Oops! Sorry, had to get that out. Back to lurking for me.
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