pauraque_bk | gloria

I still haven't watched that Vivaldi documentary yet, but I did watch an intriguing related video. It seeks to show how the tenor and "bass" (really baritone, by today's naming conventions) parts of vocal music could have been performed by women at the Ospedale della Pietà, a shelter for homeless girls where Vivaldi taught music.

From the uploader:

"This is the contralto/tenor/bass trio "Gloria Patri" from Dixit Dominus (RV 595), composed for the Figlie di Coro of the Ospedale della Pietà. Here the voice of Anna dal Basso (1670-1742), a documented bass singer at the Pietà, is sung by Margaret (centre), Cecilia dal Contralto (1679-1726) by Victoria, and Paulina dal Tenor (1675-1748) by Penny. Vivaldi's Women challenge the cultural stereotype which assumes that female voices are naturally high and that it is wrong for them to sing low."

I'm not knowledgeable enough about the history to comment on whether this performance is period accurate or not (it seems to be a point of contention), but it is at the very least a fascinating demonstration of the arbitrariness of vocal categorizations. The difference between a "contralto" voice and a "tenor" voice is not always one of natural range, but more one of training and the style one sings in. It's pointed out in the comments that the woman singing the contralto part in this video doesn't sing in the classical contralto style but in a belty "chest voice", which I took to be intentional and part of the commentary on how women's voices are categorized and expected to be used in classical song. Though at first the sound of their blended voices is surprising, I ultimately found it a beautiful performance.

I hope my US friends are having a peaceful Memorial Day. ♥

Crossposted from Dreamwidth. Feel free to comment wherever you're comfortable.

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I just ended up watching that whole thing--thanks for linking to it. Wow, so interesting, all of it. And I found myself surprisingly moved by the whole story (sure the music helps with that.)

Glad you liked it! Vivaldi is my favorite Baroque composer for sure.

Definitely not my area of expertise, it makes me want to know more.

I don't know as much as I'd like about Baroque music either, because I got into classical music from the opposite end of its history — the later composers, verging onto the modern era. Once I started to delve into it I was surprised to realize how diverse classical music is and how much it changed over time, which probably shouldn't be that surprising since it's a multi-century tradition!

It's true that only the rarest female voice could possibly hit, let alone sustain, the lowest range of bass notes in the male repertoire, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's something restricted to trans women, because they're more likely to have the advantage of longer vocal cords. But then, relatively few male voices can do it, either. I suspect modern associations with the words "bass" and "tenor" lead casual listeners to expect big, beefy guys on an operatic stage.

In the last hundred years of recorded music, there have been some remarkable contraltos, the sort of voices that would have featured as the female basses in an all-women's choir: Marian Anderson, Kathleen Ferrier, Nathalie Stutzmann. Of course, in modern times they have more choices open to them, and all of those women were/are internationally renowned soloists.

I used to volunteer with a Baroque orchestra here in the Bay Area (not in a musical capacity, as I have none), and I had the chance to hear some powerhouse women with substantial lower ranges. Regrettably, in choral music the higher voices tend to dominate, and they're usually given the melodic line or showier harmonies. Also, vocal timbre has a lot to do with a singer's affect. Some singers have richer, darker, heavier voices that resonate in a way we associate with male baritones. If you're interested, here's a track from one of the orchestra's CDs that allows the basses/altos to emerge clearly for a few bars. You can hear the difference in power between the two singers, even though they're both hitting the same notes.

Magnificat Primo by Chiara Margarita Cozzolani (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H5Y4xPEE6o)

I actually got a little twitchy during the Vivaldi piece because the designated contralto has the wrong sort of voice for early music. She produces her tone in a very - I don't know, nasal? - way, more suited to pop or folk music. And she's all over the pitch, often sliding flat. The other two singers have much better matching tones.

Eek, sorry this got so pedantic! It's a cross between me not being musically trained and me nonetheless having very strong (possibly snobbish) opinions - I end up bloviating in an attempt to explain myself.

Oh, you're fine. I figured if I posted about this that someone for whom it was Their Thing would likely reply, and that's not bad. :) I don't have any training as a singer either, so my perspective is as a listener and as someone who's had friends who were classically trained, not as someone with direct experience.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's something restricted to trans women, because they're more likely to have the advantage of longer vocal cords.

Great point, and I'm glad you brought it up. Trans women's voices are women's voices too, and are often forgotten. I suspect that as trans people continue to gain acceptance in society, there'll be more exploration of what trans voices can do. Dana International was a pioneer in the pop genre, but I can't name any well-known trans women classical singers off the top of my head.

the designated contralto has the wrong sort of voice for early music. She produces her tone in a very - I don't know, nasal? - way, more suited to pop or folk music. And she's all over the pitch, often sliding flat.

Folk music is what her singing reminded me of too, which might be why I heard some notes as intentionally blue rather than off-pitch? I also wouldn't say she has the wrong sort of voice, but perhaps not the usual training — or was not using that training here. Such a difference between inherent vocal potential and in what one is actually taught to do with the voice!

I can't see the video. Is it because I'm not in the right country?

Oh, hmm. It's possible YouTube is restricting access to the US. I just checked the link, and it works for me, but that doesn't mean there's no district blocking.

Here's a download link, if you want to check it out. I haven't used a file-sharing service in ages, but I'm pretty sure there's no password restriction on it.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/ff8o26

Thanks for the download link - this is gorgeous *-*

Thank you for such an interesting post/video! (I'm just back from my singing lesson and I am transitioning (and I wasn't happy at first) from a very low alto II to soprano range so this just stirred a lot of thoughts for me, even though I'm experiencing the opposite move - I used to enjoy singing tenor lines, it's just a matter of technique)

That contralto reminded me of folk music, too! (Corsican, or Irish/Scottish - would be gorgeous on its own). I understand perverse_idyll's point... it also felt like a strange combination with the other two.

Can't quite put my thoughts into words right now but there are many thoughts :)

Anyway, I love how much people can do with their voices. I'll always be jealous of women with powerful low ranges and in LOVE AND AWE with men singing alto and soprano parts.

Oh, that would be a challenge - both learning how to strengthen and preserve your voice in the soprano range, and the new approach to parts. If you belong to a choir, I bet they were sorry to lose your low alto. Those always seem to be a scarce commodity, or so I gathered from the artistic director I once knew.

I agree the contralto has a lovely voice, but I imagine the way she played with the pitch (assuming it was intentional) drove the other two singers crazy.

I loooooove women with a strong lower range - in a different genre, Nina Simone is one of my favorite singers.

Random anecdote: the bass-baritone most often hired for Magnificat concerts during my time with them started his career as a countertenor because it was easier for him to find work!

Actually it's the new choir I auditioned for that asked me to change (I think they were lacking Soprano IIs...). I think I mostly got into my last choir just because they were desperate for alto IIs.
Anyway, I am hurting in muscles I never knew I had (and realizing I don't have enough abs (yet) to sing properly in that range) XD but the parts are becoming a new kind of awesome. BUT it'll be more difficult to get into good choirs now :(

Yes, the contralto. Choirs are about blending, this is all wrong.

Nina Simone <3

Hehe

Edited 2015-05-30 09:56 (UTC)

gloria

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