Odds and ends :: CoS 5

[pauraque_bk]

-Happy birthday, robkaiote!

-In case anyone hasn't seen, there's a new election animation up at JibJab. And yes, it's slashy. John/John otp!!

-The "unpopular fandom opinions" meme seems to be going around again. I don't know if this is an unpopular enough opinion to count, but I'll tell you something that bugs me: I don't like it when writers complain in public about certain kinds of feedback. Maybe some folks get enough reader response that they feel they can afford to be picky, but not everyone is so fortunate. I think seeing that sort of complaint can put readers off feedbacking anyone, ever, for fear that what they say won't be adequate or appreciated. Comes under the category of "ruining it for the rest of us", in my book.

*

For me, the highlight of Chapter 4 was the suggestion by eponis that Lucius was also being manipulated by the diary. Fic, please?


CoS 5: The Whomping Willow

Harry gave a hollow laugh. 'The Dursleys haven't given me pocket money for about six years.' (55)

What does a six-year-old need with an allowance?

Also, the Grangers are shown in Chapter 4 changing Muggle money for wizard. You'd think Harry would get wise to the fact that he can do the opposite next time he's in Diagon Alley.

'Aaargh!' said Ron[...] (60)

This got a bad laugh from me. The onomatopoeia is bad enough, but "said"? She can do better, and she will, but it'll take a few more books. (She also attributes to Ron a gratuitous "AAAAAAAAAAARGH NOOOOOOOOOOO!" in PoA.)

'Can you believe our luck?' said Ron miserably, bending down to pick up Scabbers the rat. (60)

Scabbers has nothing to do in this book, but has been mentioned several times already. JKR doesn't want us to forget about him. Also, this entire chapter exists the way it does to introduce the Willow for PoA.

For a few horrible seconds he had feared the hat was going to put him in Slytherin, the house which had turned out more dark witches and wizards than any other -- but he had ended up in Gryffindor, along with Ron, Hermione and the rest of the Weasleys. Last term, Harry and Ron had helped Gryffindor win the House Championship, beating Slytherin for the first time in seven years. (61)

And what's Hermione, chopped liver? Leaving her out after mentioning her just a sentence before seems strange... if it means anything, perhaps it's that Harry doesn't have as strong a sense of them as a group of three as he will later, but is more focused on Ron, with whom he's been friends longer.

This bit of exposition also corrects Hagrid's assertion from PS/SS that *all* dark wizards come from Slytherin.

'Silence!' said Snape coldly. 'What have you done with the car?'
Ron gulped. This wasn't the first time Snape had given Harry the impression of being able to read minds. (62)

Which he isn't, here, but of course we now know he can. Perceptiveness on Harry's part, clever foreshadowing on JKR's.

'[...]I believe your father works in the Misuse of Muggle Artefacts Office?' [Snape] said, looking up at Ron and smiling still more nastily. 'Dear, dear ... his own son ...' (62-63)

Another scene that plays startlingly differently in the movie. Movie!Snape seems genuinely agonized that the boys have posed a security risk. Book!Snape is "cold", but also smirkingly delighted at the prospect of getting them into trouble (in the film, that role is transferred to Filch). When Dumbledore refuses to expel them, Snape looks "as though Christmas had been cancelled" (64).

There was a long silence. Then Dumbledore said, 'Please explain why you did this.'
It would have been better if he had shouted. Harry hated the disappointment in his voice. (64)

What's going through Dumbledore's mind here? Why is he so gravely disappointed by this incident? What the boys did was stupid, but certainly innocently-intentioned... Or does Dumbledore believe they were showing off, as Snape does (62), and as it's suggested that McGonagall does (65)? Doesn't want to see Harry's fame going to his head?

[Dumbledore:] 'I must go back to the feast, Minerva, I've got to give out a few notices. Come, Severus, there's a delicious-looking custard tart I want to sample.'
Snape shot a look of pure venom at Harry and Ron as he allowed himself to be swept out of his office, leaving them alone with Professor McGonagall, who was still eyeing them like a wrathful eagle. (64-65)

She then leaves them alone in Snape's office to eat, which seems somewhat presumptuous. Snape is very definitely treated as the other teachers' junior in this scene, which of course he is.


Past re-read posts are here.

Comments

[aubrem.livejournal.com]

"What does a six-year-old need with an allowance?"

Legos. Trust me on this.

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

...Plus, could it be an indication that they did, at one point, at least attempt to treat him more like their own son..?

Of course, Harry doesn't seem to remember sleeping anywhere but a cupboard, so that sort of nixes that idea...

But I can see some consessions, at first, Petunia maybe facing some conflicting emotions, which she eventually squashed, perhaps at Harry's manifestations of accidental magic... Perhaps when the differences between clever, cute, wicked Harry and her own lazy son began to become more pronounced...

[pauraque]

I like this line of thought. A lot.

[aubrem.livejournal.com]

Maybe that was the age when Harry first started showing signs of magic? The Dursleys might have been hoping he was a squib.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Perhaps when the differences between clever, cute, wicked Harry and her own lazy son began to become more pronounced...

Petunia's feelings for Dudley are very much her motvation, imho.
I always pictured something more along the lines of this: http://www.livejournal.com/community/hp100/309582.html
(It's not by me, btw.)

[pauraque]

Good answer. :)

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

'[...]I believe your father works in the Misuse of Muggle Artefacts Office?' [Snape] said, looking up at Ron and smiling still more nastily. 'Dear, dear ... his own son ...' (62-63)

I noticed this change in presentation along with others in the movie, and have wondered if some of the discrepencies might not be because the narrative in the books is coloured by Harry's perceptions. If Snape were played in the movies exactly as he's described in the books, he might come off as more of a caricature than the character deserves to be. After all, when reading we know to take these descriptions with a grain of salt, but when presented on screen, the images become undeniably "true." Just a thought.

Also, I find it interesting that Snape knows what department Arthur Weasley works in. We know now that the Weasleys weren't members of the Order the first time through, and considering we later have Amos Diggory not even knowing that the Weasleys are virtually his neighbours, I can't imagine the Wizarding World being quite small enough for someone like Snape to know the position of someone who isn't his contemporary.

Unless, of course, this is foreshadowing of Snape being a confidante of Lucius Malfoy (or even of Snape having been involved with the Dark Arts himself.) Why else might he know the name of someone whose business it is to conduct raids for forbidden items?

(p.s. Thank you ever so much for taking the time to do this - I find it fascinating as all get out, and since CoS is my least favourite book of the series, I probably wouldn't get around to re-reading it on my own :-P)

[hagia-sophia.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Snape knows who Arthur Weasley is from having had to deal with his children for quite a few years? The Weasleys, with their seven children, are bound to be noticeable - this is clearly an exception in the wizarding world.

[pauraque]

I noticed this change in presentation along with others in the movie, and have wondered if some of the discrepencies might not be because the narrative in the books is coloured by Harry's perceptions. If Snape were played in the movies exactly as he's described in the books, he might come off as more of a caricature than the character deserves to be. After all, when reading we know to take these descriptions with a grain of salt, but when presented on screen, the images become undeniably "true." Just a thought.

I know a lot of people do see it this way, but it doesn't sit right with me. Harry's narrative voice definitely should be taken with a grain of salt, but that doesn't mean the movies are the truth he's not seeing. When you start giving the movies more weight than the books, that's not something I can get behind.

I also very much doubt that this was the filmmakers' motivation for doing the scene that way -- I don't think they gave it that much thought -- but that's a tertiary point.

For a second I thought you were saying that images in movies are more objectively true than words in books, and was about to go on a rant that involved Fight Club and some other things, but now I see you weren't saying that, so I'll belay. :)

Unless, of course, this is foreshadowing of Snape being a confidante of Lucius Malfoy (or even of Snape having been involved with the Dark Arts himself.) Why else might he know the name of someone whose business it is to conduct raids for forbidden items?

This sounds plausible. I can see Lucius complaining to Snape about that damned meddler Arthur Weasley.

(p.s. Thank you ever so much for taking the time to do this - I find it fascinating as all get out, and since CoS is my least favourite book of the series, I probably wouldn't get around to re-reading it on my own :-P)

You're welcome. I'm sure I wouldn't have re-read it on my own either, without y'all to discuss it with. I didn't set a strict chapter schedule on PoA because I didn't need to -- I could barely stop myself from reading ahead!

[cedarlibrarian.livejournal.com]

And what's Hermione, chopped liver?

I really prefer the term paté.

[idlerat.livejournal.com]

I think that Whomping Willow intro is a --perhaps somewhat clumsy--example of one of her basic methods in the series, especially in starting it up. You think you're reading one kind of story, but it turns out to be another, and this is correlated to growing up. You think the Willow is a whimsical device put there to exemplify Magic (and provide a special effects sequence for the movie); something discrete, without a past or future. But it turns out, not only to be part of the next plot, but to have a history that changes it's meaning, and makes it serious. In fact, in a way Rickman's performance in the following scene anticipates this. He stresses the age of the tree, and the serious issues at stake in the lark.

Kinf of interesting what Cuaron then does with the tree, which makes it more sinister but also moves it back to the "lark" category, away from its specific mystery and sadness as a function in Lupin's history.

__
I think Hermione doesn't come up there because she's not *there*. But point taken. It's one of those "what if the reader is a kid who didn't read the first book" moments that can seem v. awkward.
__

JibJab- hah. Who is the guy opposite Michael Moore? Someone from FoxNews?

[tekalynn.livejournal.com]

JibJab- hah. Who is the guy opposite Michael Moore? Someone from FoxNews?

An aging Rush Limbaugh, I'm pretty sure. I'm still trying to figure out who the homeless guy by the trashcan is. Dan Quayle?

"Dixie" is a DAMN catchy tune. I just wish the original lyrics and overall connotations weren't so...so.

[pauraque]

You think you're reading one kind of story, but it turns out to be another, and this is correlated to growing up.

You just said what I was trying to say, but put it much better. :) She's good at making a thing appear innocent, while she knows perfectly well it carries more significance than it appears, and when you read back on it you can *tell* that.

[idlerat.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, feedback--I've been worried the past couple days that I offended an author I like, again. :( I just wish author's would say exactly what they mean when they put "I want feedback" messages on their sites, though I understand why they'd feel stupid saying "I only want the good news" or something like that.

[arwencordelia.livejournal.com]

I just wish authors would say exactly what they mean when they put "I want feedback" messages on their sites

Yes! I usually try to leave a reason why I liked something, or at least say what I liked the most, and have still managed to offend someone (it turned out, the aspect of a story I liked was not an "important" aspect of the story). On the other hand, some authors feel that minimal feedback is meaningless, and that's certainly the kind of thing I would like to know about ahead of time; I mean, if I know that the reaction to an "I liked this" will be "you shouldn't have bothered", then I'll know not to bother, y'know?

I wholeheartedly agree with pauraque's opinion that this sort of thing ruins it for the rest of us.

[pauraque]

Aie, I'm sorry that happened again. As much as it may feel stupid for people to say they only want positive feedback, it'd be nice if they did so; readers aren't *mind*-readers. Though, that's a mentality I don't personally understand... because, if only positive feedback is possible, then doesn't it mean a bit less when you get it?

[arwencordelia.livejournal.com]

What's going through Dumbledore's mind here? Why is he so gravely disappointed by this incident?

I wondered about the same thing, and the only answer I can come up with is, I'm afraid, a rather sappy one. Dumbledore admits in OOTP to love Harry for being Harry, more so than he does the average student in his school (whether this is a result of Dumbledore's prior relationship with James and Lily, I don't know). I can understand this reaction as one coming from a worried parent-type figure, given that Harry and Ron thought nothing of the fact that they could have both been killed. Molly reacts differently with Fred and George when they took the car, but I believe the motive behind her fury is the same: she's been worried all night, and when the kids finally turn up safe, all this worry turns into anger at their carelessness. Dumbledore doesn't seem the type to yell, but, like Harry realises, his obvious disappointment is worse (kind of reminds me of Harry's reaction to what Lupin told him in POA, after he was caught sneaking out to Hogsmeade).

I also found it interesting that it was Snape who went out (or was sent out) to search for the boys. Another occasion where Harry does something thoughtless and dangerous, and Snape has to come to his rescue...

[pauraque]

It is interesting that Snape is the one to find them, when he has no reason to be away from the Great Hall. (It actually makes more sense in the film; Filch could reasonably be standing guard to see that students don't go wandering.) It doesn't seem likely that he saw or heard the crash into the Willow, because no one else did.

[paz-.livejournal.com]

This is a bit difficult for me since my books are in Spanish, so I can't quote directly, but I'll see what I can do... :P

Scabbers has nothing to do in this book, but has been mentioned several times already. JKR doesn't want us to forget about him. Also, this entire chapter exists the way it does to introduce the Willow for PoA.

The Whomping Willow is also used in a similar way; in this chapet JKR describes the branches of the tree as snakes on a few occasions, clearly foreshadowing what will happen later on. She also mentions the Hogwarts Express looking like a 'red serpent' when Harry and Ron are flying over it in the car.

And speaking of the car, have you notices how Ron speaks to it? As if the car could actually hear him? I rather liked that because it kind of shows how wizards are more accustomed to dealing with magic and all sorts of other things that muggles would think 'strange'; I mean, who would talk to a car, right? ;)

One more thing that called my attention is the amount of money Fred and George seem to spend in Dr Filibuster's Fireworks. Where do they get that money from, if the Weasleys are so poor?

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

Knowing them, a five-finger discount is a distinct possibility.

[pauraque]

I almost decided to do a simultaneous re-read of the French version, but decided it would be too time-consuming. I'm definitely interested to hear how things come off differently in other languages, though!

The Whomping Willow is also used in a similar way; in this chapet JKR describes the branches of the tree as snakes on a few occasions, clearly foreshadowing what will happen later on. She also mentions the Hogwarts Express looking like a 'red serpent' when Harry and Ron are flying over it in the car.

In English, JKR says the branch of the Willow is "thick as a python", so the idea is there. I'm not sure of the connection you're making, though... just the ominousness of the snake imagery, or something more specific?

And speaking of the car, have you notices how Ron speaks to it? As if the car could actually hear him? I rather liked that because it kind of shows how wizards are more accustomed to dealing with magic and all sorts of other things that muggles would think 'strange'; I mean, who would talk to a car, right? ;)

I don't think it's that strange; I certainly talk to my technology when it isn't behaving properly. *g*

[wolfie-thu.livejournal.com]

Snape is very definitely treated as the other teachers' junior in this scene

I found it interesting that Snape didn't even seem really bothered by this; I mean, he gets upset when Ron and Harry aren't expelled/given a more severe punishment, but before that he's practically dancing around with glee because well...basically, he's tattled on Potter and someone's actually listened. Almost a bit as though he's regressing back to when he himself was a student, and was always trying to get James and company expelled.

I wonder if that's part of the reason why he freaks out so much at the end of PoA; it's almost as if he's having "flashbacks" or something to the other...incident with the Shrieking Shack, and once again, people trust Potter's story over his.

I don't like it when writers complain in public about certain kinds of feedback.
Word. I personally like any feedback I can get, even if it's bad, because at least that means I'm getting a reaction, and am not being ignored completely because my work is the blandest McBland that was ever bland.

[pauraque]

I wonder if that's part of the reason why he freaks out so much at the end of PoA; it's almost as if he's having "flashbacks" or something to the other...incident with the Shrieking Shack, and once again, people trust Potter's story over his.

Oh, totally. I mean, I doubt he's having literal flashbacks, but I definitely think what's going on in his head is NOT AGAIN NOT AGAIN NOT AGAIN.

[tekalynn.livejournal.com]

I found it interesting that Snape didn't even seem really bothered by this; I mean, he gets upset when Ron and Harry aren't expelled/given a more severe punishment, but before that he's practically dancing around with glee because well...basically, he's tattled on Potter and someone's actually listened. Almost a bit as though he's regressing back to when he himself was a student, and was always trying to get James and company expelled.

Very much so, and the way you word this is hilarious.

And then what happens? Dumbledore cruises in and undercuts Snape *again*! Poor Severus, always the Coyote to Harry's Roadrunner.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm a little behind here. :-)

I just wanted to add a little more about the post-Willow scene in the book and movie. In the movie, Snape's anger seems a little more reasoned and less vengeful. His actual response, though, seems considerably less controlled -- this is one of the only *movie* scenes I can think of where he looks nearly out of control (as opposed to the scenes in PoA where he's supposed to be rabid).

I think this is really important for the difference in what happens next. In the book, Dumbledore and McGonagall show up because Snape *sent* for them, presumably. They aren't taking over because they're Snape's superiors, but because they have the "happy power" to expel the Gryffindor boys. If it were Draco, Snape would have had that power and McGonagall presumably wouldn't. In the movie, Snape doesn't seem to be *trying* to get them expelled so much as raving that they should be. When Dumbledore and McGonagall show up, it appears (to me) that they've come to *rescue* the boys from Snape's wrath -- completely the opposite of the book.

I think Snape's reaction to their arrival in the movie makes him look very much junior -- it's that point where he really *does* act like a 12-year-old tattletale (doesn't he actually point?), and Dumbledore shoots him down like a foolish child. He shows no professional respect at all; book!Dumbledore sweeps him out of his own office rather inconsiderately, but he doesn't cut Snape down in front of his least favorite students. (One of my least favorite Dumbledore moments in the movies, btw.) I agree it's rude of McGonagall to leave them alone in Snape's office, but I think it was more convenience -- why drag them up to her own office when they've already taken care of the important "business" points, and moving them to somewhere other than the Great Hall for dinner would be terribly obvious. It's still thoughtless, but I don't really see a major show of superiority, deliberate or otherwise, in it.