CoS 9

Oct. 17th, 2004 11:05 pm
pauraque_bk: (chamber of secrets)
[personal profile] pauraque_bk
CoS 9: The Writing on the Wall

Snape loomed behind them [as Dumbledore examined Mrs Norris], half in shadow, wearing a most peculiar expression: it was as though he was trying hard not to smile. (108)
What's this about? I'm surprised Harry didn't immediately jump to suspecting Snape was somehow involved in the attack.

'He did it, he did it!' Filch spat, his pouchy face purpling. 'You saw what he wrote on the wall! He found -- in my office -- he knows I'm a -- I'm a --' Filch's face worked horribly. 'He knows I'm a Squib!' he finished. (108-109)
So, Squibs are indeed considered "enemies of the heir". I'd wondered. Filch is accusing Harry of a hate crime... and the petrification of Mrs Norris really was one.

I'm not clear on how Squibs get lumped in with Muggleborns; by the logic that Binns attributes to Salazar, they're not a threat. Unless there was some sense that intermarriage between Squibs and normal wizards would dilute the blood, so they should be ostracized?

[Snape:] 'It might be a good idea if he were deprived of certain privileges until he is ready to tell us the whole story. I personally feel he should be taken off the Gryffindor Quidditch team until he is ready to be honest.'
'Really, Severus,' said Professor McGonagall sharply. 'I see no reason to stop the boy playing Quidditch. This cat wasn't hit over the head with a broomstick[...]'
(109)
Heh.

Snape is a bit Quidditch-mad, isn't he? But maybe not so much an enthusiasm for sport as an enthusiasm to see his House win at something -- and Harry lose.

Dumbledore was giving Harry a seaching look. His twinkling light-blue gaze made Harry feel as though he was being X-rayed. (110)
Legilimency foreshadowing again.

'And what on earth's a Squib?' said Harry.
To his surprise, Ron stifled a snigger.
'Well -- it's not funny really -- but as it's Filch...' he said. 'A Squib is someone who was born into a wizarding family but hasn't got any magic powers. Kind of the opposite of Muggle-born wizards, but Squibs are quite unusual. If Filch's trying to learn magic from a Kwikspell course, I reckon he must be a Squib[...]'
(110-111)
This seems to go against some of [livejournal.com profile] arclevel's ideas about Squibs. The implication appears to be that Kwikspell is a scam.

Ginny Weasley seemed very disturbed by Mrs Norris's fate. According to Ron, she was a great cat-lover. (111)
I'm going back and forth on how I feel about the handling of Ginny's character. We see very little of her, and are only told of her reactions. On the other hand, if she'd been more prominent, maybe the answer to the mystery would have seemed too obvious?

[Ron:] 'I only need another two inches, go on...' (112)
Out-of-context, ahoy!

[Binns:] '[The Founders] built this castle together, far from prying Muggle eyes, for it was an age when magic was feared by common people, and witches and wizards suffered much persecution.'
[...]
'[Slytherin] disliked taking students of Muggle parentage, believing them to be untrustworthy[...]'
(114)
It's not an unreasonable idea, really. In the present day, magic is still feared by some, but merely doubted by most. A thousand years ago, the danger posed by Muggleborns may have been much greater -- we don't know how well the castle was hidden; a child's careless slip could have brought attack. Salazar may even have argued that it was for the children's benefit: even if the Muggles couldn't find the castle, they could still burn a suspected witch among them.

'If you're talking about Malfoy--'
'Of course I am!' said Ron. 'You heard him:
"You'll be next, Mudbloods!" Come on, you've only got to look at his foul rat face to know it's him--'
'Malfoy, the heir of Slytherin?' said Hermione sceptically.
'Look at his family,' said Harry, closing his books, too. 'The whole lot of them have been in Slytherin, he's always boasting about it. They could easily be Slytherin's descendants. His father's definitely evil enough.'
(120)
And once again the boys jump to conclusions based on outward appearances, just as they did in PS/SS. Not to say that Lucius isn't evil, but Harry doesn't have much solid evidence that he is. It's hard to tell whether Ron is saying Draco is ugly, or something more like "just look into his eyes and you'll see he's a bad sort". Either way, it's not very good evidence, though admittedly Draco did react suspiciously.


Past re-read posts are here.
Page 2 of 3 << [1] [2] [3] >>

Date: 2004-10-18 10:19 am (UTC)
pauraque: bird flying (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
It's interesting that you say that, because fanon generally has it that Snape and Filch are friends. Mostly based on the fact that when Snape gets his leg bit by Fluffy in PS/SS, he doesn't go to the infirmary, but to Filch to have it bandaged up. The assumption tends to be that he trusts Filch not to tell anyone.

But they're not obviously buddies. The other time we see them talking when (they think) they're alone is in GoF, and they argue. Interestingly, though, they're really after the same goal -- they want to punish someone who's made trouble in the school, they just disagree over who it should be.

This fandom is so thick with analysis and long-held assumptions that it's often enlightening to get the perspective of someone who just read the books as books. *g*

Re: and w00t enigmatic ginny

Date: 2004-10-18 11:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jheaton.livejournal.com
[livejournal.com profile] mamadeb wrote an interesting essay (http://www.livejournal.com/users/mamadeb/305612.html) a few weeks ago about why Hogwarts might have been founded.

Something else to ponder: if Hogwarts was founded in 992 or thereabouts, then the entire British public school system must have been deliberately patterned after Hogwarts.

Date: 2004-10-18 03:36 pm (UTC)
ext_6531: (Squid)
From: [identity profile] lizbee.livejournal.com
These Filch-heavy chapters have been particularly interesting for me, as I've been writing about a Squib lately, and all the speculation is doing great things for the creative part of my brain.

Nothing of any relevance to say. Just wanted to poke my nose in and say thanks.

Date: 2004-10-18 03:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vvvexation.livejournal.com
I guess she could've, but I still think the effect as it stands isn't all that different. It's still in keeping with the usual way she has characters assume things.

Date: 2004-10-18 03:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vvvexation.livejournal.com
Hmmm. I agree there's a subtle rivalry there, but in this case I don't think McGonagall was going to punish them--Snape was the only one expressing suspicion, and McGonagall quite correctly pointed out that there was no sign they'd done anything wrong at all.

Date: 2004-10-18 04:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vvvexation.livejournal.com
That's what I always figured too, although now that I think about it I'm not sure we ever see any other signs that Snape has a sense of humor at all--that is, cases where he's genuinely amused rather than simply snide. That could make this scene more important than we thought.

Re: and w00t enigmatic ginny

Date: 2004-10-18 06:37 pm (UTC)
pauraque: bird flying (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
And Eo, I must apologize for going off on this tangent all over your CoS discussion.

What's this, a joke? Tangents are my bread and butter! Tangent away!

Re: and w00t enigmatic ginny

Date: 2004-10-18 06:37 pm (UTC)
pauraque: bird flying (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
then the entire British public school system must have been deliberately patterned after Hogwarts.

Ha, that never occurred to me... You're quite right, of course.

Date: 2004-10-18 06:42 pm (UTC)
pauraque: bird flying (ron/peter love/loss (indilime's base))
From: [personal profile] pauraque
First of all, Ron always has been a bit dense

I take slight exception to this. Sometimes he's dense, other times he's oddly perceptive.

'[...]I reckon he must be a Squib. It would explain a lot. Like why he hates students so much.' Ron gave a satisfied smile. 'He's bitter.' (111)

Date: 2004-10-18 06:47 pm (UTC)
pauraque: bird flying (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
Perhaps because most Squibs move into the Muggle world and risk alerting the population to the existence of Wizards?

But wouldn't attacking Filch's cat -- intimidating him -- give him a motive to do exactly that? That logic puts Squibs in an impossible position: they aren't wanted in wizard society, nor are they desired to leave it.

I was about to say they are allowed to leave it in the present day, but we don't know that that's true. Arabella Figg may be keeping a close watch on Harry, but that gives the wizarding world an excuse to keep a close watch on *her*. Are Squibs registered like werewolves? Observed to make sure they aren't posing any risks?

Date: 2004-10-18 06:49 pm (UTC)
pauraque: bird flying (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
I'd like to know more from JKR about what's going on with Squibs. It seems so straightforward at first, but then when you look closer, the concept and the way it's presented raise all kinds of problems.

Date: 2004-10-18 07:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolfie-thu.livejournal.com
Are Squibs registered like werewolves? Observed to make sure they aren't posing any risks?

There's a relevant bit about that in OotP (from the hearing chapter):

'We have no record of any witch or wizard living in Little Whinging, other than Harry Potter', said Madam Bones at once. That situation has always been closely monitored, given... given past events.'

'I'm a Squib', said Mrs Figg. 'So you wouldn't have me registered, would you?'

'A Squib, eh?' said Fudge, eyeing her closely. 'We'll be checking that. You'll leave details of your parentage with my assistant Weasley.

Date: 2004-10-18 09:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iczer6.livejournal.com
Exactly, Ron will make exceptions for people he knows, but lump every other werewolf/Giant/Squib/Muggle into whatever box his rearing has lead him to imagine.

But is he really wrong? I mean Hagrid's time with the Giants does show they they really aren't a kind, gentle people.

Grawp was a danger as was Remus, at least without the potion.

Not that Ron can't be a bit shortsighted and prejudiced, just in these cases I think there is a good reason for him feeling the way he does.


Icz

Date: 2004-10-18 09:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iczer6.livejournal.com
It's worth pointing out in SS Snape went to Flich for help when he was injured by Fluffy.

They're not super-best-friends, but I don't think they hate each other.


Icz

Date: 2004-10-18 09:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] strangemuses.livejournal.com
Ron's explanation makes him appear a bit dense because Ron is frequently a bit dense. I think that the "cat-lover" bit is necessary to demonstrate that Ron has noticed but dismissed Ginny's distress. Contrast that to Percy thinking that she is sick and giving her Pepperup potion, and the twins later trying to "cheer her up" by jumping out and scaring her. All of her siblings noticed that something was going on with Ginny throughout the book, and they all reacted in different ways. Ron was clueless, the twins played pranks on her, and Percy tried to take care of her.

OT alert!

Date: 2004-10-18 10:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arseaboutface.livejournal.com
I -love- your icon. Could I steal it if I promise to credit?

Re: OT alert!

Date: 2004-10-18 10:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scarah2.livejournal.com
It's made by talented [livejournal.com profile] vejgurl. And she put it in her journal for all the folks, so sure! But credit her! And going to say hi couldn't hurt :D

Re: blah blah Up Slytherin

Date: 2004-10-18 11:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] djinnj.livejournal.com
nothing to say 'cept, Norman conquest effectively ended with 1066 and the Battle of Hastings. Which was immediately followed by a period of Norman governance and assimilation.

Incidentally, the English language the founders would have spoken prior to the Conquest would have been considerably different, as the Great Vowel Shift wasn't for another 100 years or so (I think).

Re: blah blah Up Slytherin

Date: 2004-10-18 11:12 pm (UTC)
pauraque: bird flying (conlangery)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
The Great Vowel Shift was a bit after that, actually. 1300s-1500s is the usual timeframe I've seen.

Also, the English of that time wouldn't have yet had the many, many words borrowed from Norman French, which are so characteristic of the modern English vocabulary.

Re: OT alert!

Date: 2004-10-18 11:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arseaboutface.livejournal.com
Crazily enough, I know her. She's on my fl and everything, mods an RPG I used to play in. It's a small fandom after all.

Re: blah blah Up Slytherin

Date: 2004-10-19 12:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] djinnj.livejournal.com
Ah, you're correct. I was thinking of the shift that occurred in the transition from Old English to Middle English, which was put in motion by the Norman Conquest. The GVS is actually the major pronunciation change between Middle English and Mod.E. Had to dig up my Pyles and Algeo and check, as I always get mixed up. Interestingly enough, P&A state that aspects of GVS were still occurring into the 1800s.

You are right, though, the vocabulary changed after the Conquest, with the rise of Anglo-Norman. Although the general populace never spoke French, loan words crept into usage. P&A label the Middle English period as 1100-1500, and the difference between Old English and Middle English is considerably greater than the difference between Middle English and Modern English. In a HP Universe context, any documents from the founding would probably be in Latin, with a small chance of OE. So, as long as JKR sticks with Latin for her really old stuff, she should be OK. What we shouldn't ever see, though, is fake ME for OE.

Date: 2004-10-19 12:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] josephine76.livejournal.com
I think Ron just tried to find an explanation for Ginny, perhaps even to keep himself satisfied. I have those in my family, who try to explain every sort of behaviour.

Date: 2004-10-19 07:26 am (UTC)
ext_6866: (Maybe I'm wrong.)
From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com
Could you have just discovered the fandom's next "triumphant gleam"?

I really hope so.

I mean, yes Snape could just be happy at Harry in trouble at at being accused, but that seems a little roundabout to me. We've seen Snape in that situation before, and if he was concentrating on Harry being blamed I'd think he'd be accusing him and trying to get Dumbledore to do something about it. To me (without re-reading but just going by the quotes) it seems like he's reacting to Dumbledore's examination of the cat with a smile.

He could find just the petrified cat funny, but that doesn't seem quite right since it could be just a student Prank. Unless Snape thinks it's a Slytherin Prank, I don't know if he'd immediately find it amusing. Also there doesn't seem to be any special reason Snape would want to see Filch's cat hurt.

It seems to me it's, as you say, more like the triumphant gleam, and that he would know this was the work of the Heir. This is the first petrification, right? So it doesn't seem like Snape's had a lot of time to have thought the basilisk was loose and not be listened to--that could explain his smile if he feels what he's said would happen finally did.

I admit I really like the idea of Snape having a liking for the Heir of Slytherin as the Head of Slytherin, somehow, and that there's more to the story that just icky bad racist-parallel. But as I said I haven't gone back and read it so I could be way off. Isn't Malfoy described as looking fevered or flushed? It's not the same thing, but I really like the idea of both of them being filled with some kind of excitement that Slytherin is somehow in action, and that this means something special to them beyond what we know.

Date: 2004-10-19 12:17 pm (UTC)
pauraque: bird flying (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
Yeah, I cited it in the last chapter:

'Enemies of the heir, beware! You'll be next, Mudbloods!'
It was Draco Malfoy. He had pushed to the front of the crowd, his cold eyes alive, his usually bloodless face flushed, as he grinned at the sight of the hanging, immobile cat. (106)

Whoa. With a reaction like that, no wonder Harry suspects him.

Re: and w00t enigmatic ginny

Date: 2004-10-20 05:51 am (UTC)
ext_2233: Writing MamaDeb (Default)
From: [identity profile] mamadeb.livejournal.com
That's someething I was thinking about bring up in the essay, but it has enough stuff in it.

My theory is that the first "public" school was founded by wealthy wizarding parents for a beloved Squib son, and other Squib children. Since it didn't have to be hidden, Muggle parents used it too (also to fill out the ranks. I'm assuming Squibs are extremely rare), and since it didn't have the Wizarding world behind it, it would be expensive to run.

And so. :)
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