Politics for a Tuesday

[pauraque_bk]

The best evidence suggests that LJ is much more liberal than the general population. My own election poll, primarily answered by fandom people, went even more overwhelmingly for Kerry. (I also asked only US citizens to participate; if I'd opened it up to everyone, I'm sure we'd've seen even more Kerry votes.)

Based on these polls, LJ fandom resembles a strongly Democratic-voting city, like Philadelphia or Washington, DC. That gels with my subjective experience of what the political views of online fans are like -- we're a big bunch of liberals. It feels much like my real life, and I live in Berkeley.

There are conservatives in fandom, of course, and they seem to be well aware they're in the minority, as the success of therightfangirl should attest.

So, my question of the day is: Why is online fandom so liberal? When this comes up, I usually hear variations on two different answers:


1. The internet as a whole is liberal.
We've already seen that LJ is liberal, and it seems to make sense that the internet would be, because so many internet users are sub/urban (or at least were in 1998). Then again, many users are also financially successful, which could indicate greater conservatism.

And there are online services that more accurately reflect the politics of the general population than LJ. AOL polls, for example, usually seem close(r) to national polls. I'm also reminded of that online newspaper poll on gay marriage some months back that we all encouraged each other to go vote in. It was a pretty even split. (But are conservatives better at organizing? Well, that's another topic.)

If there are any fandom oldbies listening, what were politics like before fandom got online?


2. It's the slash, baby.
Can this possibly be a major factor? Do conservatives really go looking for fanfic online, notice slash, and take their business elsewhere? Surely there are enough het and gen fandom outlets to make this a non-issue, except for the most savagely anti-gay individuals. (Ooh, has anyone polled the politics at the Sugar Quill?)

Or maybe it's the other way around. Are liberals attracted to fandom in greater numbers because of the gay-friendly atmosphere?


Responses from conservatives would be especially welcome.

Comments

[sprite6.livejournal.com]

I always thought that education correlated to liberalism as well until I read an article about it.

Really? Interesting! I've been hearing about that correlation from many folks for a long time. I'd love to see that article if you remember where it was from.

[chrysantza.livejournal.com]

As I noted in my post above, I surmise that many fans with conservative leanings don't talk about it, especially if they fear causing a ruckus.

And there are fans who just don't talk about their political leanings at all, so they might be assumed to be liberal (or conservative) but their real positions are anyone's guess.

[chrysantza.livejournal.com]

And I'm liberal and prefer het and gen - just goes to show that there are statistical outliers everywhere. ;)

(I'm all for gay rights and gay marriage IRL, but slash, for the most part, bores me. As I said, statistical outlier.)

[laizeohbeets.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's the slash.

I read slash, femmeslash, het, gen, threesomes, you name it, I read it, yet I'm still politically conservative. I really don't see why college-age, female, internet as a whole being liberal... Partly because I'm a female college student, went to the 2nd best high school in the state, am a film student (and everyone knows film students as a whole tend to be liberal.), have had a computer since birth, and been online since I was in 4th grade.

Yet I'm still a conservative Harry Potter fan active in three other fandoms.

The reason why most people don't "speak up" about their political affiliation if they're conservative is because people get so pissed off, take the conservative off their friendslist, so on and so forth, just because a person's view differs from theirs. (Believe me, I've seen it happen.)

[buongiornodaisy.livejournal.com]

I don't think there is a good answer to this question, except for maybe the tired and true assumption that the internet is liberal as a whole. The large and vocal presence of liberals might also scare off conservatives more than slash fic, as any reasonable person who knows anything about fandom knows it isn't all about slash. It's a fear of rejection that may turn conservatives away from fandom. Considering that most of the conservatives here support gay rights and the like, I'd say that's definitely a case. How many conservatives are willing to admit that they're against gay marriage and abortion? (I'll admit it, but, I'll also admit I expect a flame war when I say that) I guess conservatives don't want to deal with the drama and also don't want to hobknob with a group of people who hate everything they stand for.

Here via Daily Snitch

[prettyveela.livejournal.com]

(Ooh, has anyone polled the politics at the Sugar Quill?)

ROFL *smh*

No but a lot of us find it very amusing that a lot of people think that SQ is full of conservative Quillers. I have no idea how people came to this conclusion because most of the well known R/Hr's in the fandom are liberal or moderate, not radical right wing conservative.

If the reason is because they don't allow slash then I think that's kinda dumb simply because as much as I love slash, I get tired of seeing slash being the only thing recced 98% of the time. Sometimes I like G and PG.

Why is the fandom so liberal? I think slash is a part of it but most of the HP fandom people I know are either from Generation X or Y and let's face it, these two generations are full of progressives. I chalk that up to the world changing and thank goodness we changed with it.

[cleverthylacine]

that's why we made an icon out of it. biichan made the icon, we share. :)

Re: Here via Daily Snitch

[cleverthylacine]

I think the reason a lot of people think that (and no, I'm not one of them) is because various people who are very well-known members and staff of the Quill have made some public posts stating that certain kinds of fic shouldn't be written, shouldn't be posted, shouldn't exist not just at the Quill but at all.

When people come off as pro-censorship the knee-jerk reaction is that they're conservatives, even though most libertarian and moderate conservatives (such as moi) are very anti-censorship and the idea that chan should be censored, even though it doesn't hurt any actual kids, because they might glorify the idea or tempt people who are psychologically unbalanced, is really a liberal idea, just like the idea that pr0n is anti-female and should be suppressed as a feminist act. People forget that not all censorship is religiously motivated, and that the people who want to ban violent TV shows and things they feel are anti-woman are usually communitarian liberals.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

I've heard it the other way around, too, and generally from reliable (though not primary) sources. I wonder what the statistics are for those with graduate/professional degrees. Of course, that said, a higher education, especially for those with an MD or JD, correlates rather strongly with higher wealth, which correlates as conservative. As for those in academia, which is what people frequently think of as "the educated," if studies showed that they weren't liberal, I think I'd seriously question their methods. I have no problem agreeing with the statement that college campuses are bastions of liberalism; I just happen not to mind.

[quidditchmaster.livejournal.com]

I sent the original to so many people, but none of them got it =(

None of them knew about dianetics, so *shrug*

[cleverthylacine]

Not all conservatives oppose gay marriage. In favour, you'll find Andrew Sullivan, Jonathan Rauch, and me.

Not all conservatives are anti-choice. Arlen Specter isn't. I'm not.

Part of the problem is that it's not the position that makes a person liberal or conservative, but the reasoning behind it.

[pauraque]

I appreciate your response, but everybody gets to talk in my LJ, even lowly undergraduates. Shocking of me, I know.

[tekalynn.livejournal.com]

Great question.

My impression is that we're self-selected to some extent. A bunch of lj liberals know a bunch of other lj liberals who know a bunch of *other* lj liberals, and we clump together because we know we'll have the political interests in common as well as our various fandoms. Slash fans also often seem to have RL GBLT interests, so that also skews to the more liberal side.

I don't think sf fandom itself is necessarily all that liberal. When I was an obsessive lurker on rec.arts.sf-written back in the early to mid-nineties, the predominant political voices from the US tended to be agressively libertarian, often clashing with the more Social Democrat British posters. Quite a lot of the "You'll pry my ray gun from my cold, dry tentacle" mindset. That group also tended to be straight and presumably white males who were not fond of slash, or of fanfiction in general. ("Leave it to the *real* writers and stop stealing their ideas!")

LJ has its ups and downs, but I feel I have a lot more in common with the personas that I have encountered here than with the personas I encountered on Usenet back in the Old Days.

[pauraque]

As Isis points out, the women=liberal correlation has not been as strong recently as it has in the past. Only 51% of women voted for Kerry.

[pauraque]

My impression is that we're self-selected to some extent. A bunch of lj liberals know a bunch of other lj liberals who know a bunch of *other* lj liberals, and we clump together because we know we'll have the political interests in common as well as our various fandoms.

This was even more true when an invite code was required to get a free LJ.

[pauraque]

It's a reasonable fear. Some of the loudest, most belligerent liberal voices I've ever encountered have been right here on LJ. Plenty of yelling about defriending anyone who voted for Bush, and the like.

[(Anonymous)]

... perhaps the conservatives and middle-of-the-roaders don't talk about their political convictions as much?

I think that's because sometimes people feel that if they voice their conservative opinion in a heavily liberal fandom and/or area, one or two of the more intolerant people might just come attack them with obscenities and character insults (ie. Republican bigot, right-wing idiot, etc.). They might bring some of their friends, too, who might be intolerant of other opinions as well, so the insults keep multiplying until it becomes a big waste of time and energy.

Like me, I'm keeping this post anonymous because I don't want people gravitating to LJ and start asking me why I think this or that. A couple of weeks ago I was randomly attacked for supporting/honoring someone which, in their minds, my party obviously disagreed with.

[(Anonymous)]

That's exactly how I feel.

[juice-squeezer.livejournal.com]

Here via QQ.

This has always been something I've wondered about too and I think it's quite a combination of factors. The age factor is definitely one of them, I think. The high female factor - not necessarily. Australian studies (am an Australian politics major) tend to suggest women are more likely to vote conservative actually. But maybe that's not the case in the US. As for net users in general being liberal, this may be true because of the tendency for liberals to be progressive and embrace new technologies and cultures more easily whereas, in threory, liberals tend to favour tradition and traditional modes of communication.

Another factor to consider is that because of the themes of Harry Potter (which brought so many people to LJ) tend to turn off many hardcore socially conservative types because of the witchcraft etc.

But I guess it's a pretty complex question and these are just my 2 cents.

[thepouncer.livejournal.com]

I agree with this - I don't want to have to justify my political beliefs to anyone, and any time I get the yen to comment on some issue, I know that I'd have to provide so much background that it becomes laborious and off-putting. Also, the post-election attacks on conservatives were frightening enough that the chances of me commenting on anything political was lessened significantly.

[aphrodeia.livejournal.com]

I vote for "The internet is liberal," though there are plenty of other factors.

Back home in Minnesota, EVERYONE had a computer and internet access. We had not one, but two cable internet companies in my city of 60k, as well as various DSL and dialup opportunities.

I moved to rural Ohio two years ago. My new city is also 60k. My house still can't get DSL, and ONE cable internet company just moved in perhaps six months ago. Many people here don't even have phones, let alone computers or internet savvy.

HUGE culture shock. And Ohio's not even UBERRED.

[mlle-petal.livejournal.com]

well i'm pretty active in the het side of the fandom, and i've found that even there the folks are overwhelmingly liberal. i'd say it really is a cross-fandom phenomenon. how intriguing :) it is worth mentioning that most het fanners tend to be fairly supportive of (or at least not squicked by) slash, so maybe there's still a connection of sorts...

[marm.livejournal.com]

This is probably the best explanation I've read so far. In non-lj fandom, I know the balance between liberals and conservatives is much more like it is IRL.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

While I suppose statistics would show that the Internet is mostly liberal, I think the thing about the Internet is that if you're looking for right or left wing websites, there's tons of stuff out there. The seemingly innocent Family.org has everything from self-help to apple crisp, along with "How can I help a loved one who is gay? There is freedom from homosexuality through the transforming love of God."

As it has to do with fandom, that's all over the board as well. There are ads for RPGs that proclaim "no slash unless it makes sense." And so forth.

Personally, I wouldn't defriend someone if they said they were conservative. If they had posts regularly proclaiming gay marriage is wrong and we should continue to blast the unholy fuck out of Iraq, I might just because LJ is my escape (heavy emphasis there) and I really don't need to read that. I have a hard enough time refraining from debating people I care about in real life, such as my Pagan morris dancing friend who thinks Bush is the best thing since sliced bread.

[mlle-petal.livejournal.com]

hey there australian politics major, i'm an australian politics major. gawd, the people you run across in fandom, hey? :)

do you know, i had no idea that most aussie women voted Lib. (although, it seems that everyone is voting Lib these days. sigh.) i forget how overwhelmingly big 'L' liberal this country is becoming (but then, that probably comes from attending perth's leftiest uni and mixing with all small 'L' liberals!)

as for the witchcraft thing, i don't think that is actually much of a factor, really. i know there is a section of the christian community that believes that satan works through the boy with the lightning bolt scar; but there is such a strong tradition in children's literature of telling stories about witches, wizards and magic that most people are pretty blasé about the magic in potterverse.

i'm thinking it's mainly just a net thing. most conservatives i know don't like the internet; it gives them the heebie-jeebies :)