PS 3

Jan. 5th, 2005 10:47 pm
pauraque_bk: (ps/ss identity crisis)
[personal profile] pauraque_bk
In the previous edition of our HP book analysis,
We typed all day and night through tendonitis and through calluses,
Pondering the characters and waxing pedagogical
On JKR's vast ignorance of things herpetological.
We've found symbolic alchemy and teased out the foreshadowing;
A rosy view of Dumbledore's already had a battering;
We all know [livejournal.com profile] black_dog's clever but I don't think we imagined he
Would find the textual evidence for the Dursley family tragedy!

(CHORUS: Would find the textual evidence for the Dursley family tragedy, etc.)

Is it psychologic realism that the Dursley family lacks?
Let's have some speculation on the bracket of their income tax!
We'll maybe even work out what the source of Vernon's malice is--
Stay tuned for the next chapter of our HP book analysis.

(That was [livejournal.com profile] _hannelore's fault.)


PS 3: The Letters from No One

The escape of the Brazilian boa constrictor earned Harry his longest-ever punishment. By the time he was allowed out of his cupboard again, the summer holidays had started[...] (28)
How long is that? When's Dudley's birthday?

'They stuff people's heads down the toilet first day at Stonewall,' [Dudley] told Harry. 'Want to come upstairs and practise?'

'No thanks,' said Harry. 'The poor toilet's never had anything as horrible as your head down it -- it might be sick.'
(28)
A snarker from childhood, Harry is. (His only weapon... Who else to we know who uses cruel insults this way? Yes, I've gotten very big on the Harry-Snape parallels.)

Also: When I see the word Stonewall, my first thought, of course, is Stonewall. There's also apparently a well-known gay rights group of the same name in the UK.

Smeltings boys wore maroon tailcoats, orange knickerbockers and flat straw hats called boaters. They also carried knobbly sticks, used for hitting each other while the teachers weren't looking. (29)
[livejournal.com profile] black_dog was under the impression that this uniform was rather non-U. I'm afraid I'm not up on the details of British social structure... anyone else? (Also... what's with the stick?)

Uncle Vernon opened his newspaper as usual and Dudley banged his Smeltings stick, which he carried everywhere, on the table. (29)
Dudley/stick OTP!! Beg your pardon. I found this chapter very funny, and I'm still a bit giggly.

'Who'd be writing to you?' sneered Uncle Vernon, shaking the letter open with one hand and glancing at it. His face went from red to green faster than a set of traffic lights. And it didn't stop there. Within seconds it was the greyish white of old porridge.

'P-P-Petunia!' he gasped.

Dudley tried to grab the letter to read it, but Uncle Vernon held it high out of his reach. Aunt Petunia took it curiously and read the first line. For a moment it looked as though she might faint. She clutched her throat and made a choking noise.

'Vernon! Oh my goodness -- Vernon!'

They stared at each other, seeming to have forgotten that Harry and Dudley were still in the room.
(30-31)
What a reaction! They've clearly discussed and worried over this in advance; there's no doubt in Vernon's mind what it means. If Petunia knew the letter always comes when you're 11, I can see how the stress would have escalated over the years.

'I WANT MY LETTER!' [Harry] shouted. (31)
Aw, baby's first capslock.

'Vernon,' Aunt Petunia was saying in a quivering voice, 'look at the address -- how could they possibly know where he sleeps? You don't think they're watching the house?'

'Watching -- spying -- might be following us,' muttered Uncle Vernon wildly.

'But what should we do, Vernon? Should we write back? Tell them we don't want --'

'Harry could see Uncle Vernon's shiny black shoes pacing up and down the kitchen.
[There's a stray quotation mark in this line.]

'No,' he said finally. 'No, we'll ignore it. If they don't get an answer ... yes, that's best ... we won't do anything ...'

'But--'

'I'm not having one in the house, Petunia! Didn't we swear when we took him in we'd stamp out that dangerous nonsense?'
(31)
This is rather an abrupt change from Chapter 1, where Vernon timidly broaches the subject with her, after seeing the owls. And why would Petunia ask *him* what to do, or how they knew where Harry slept? She's the one with direct experience of the wizarding world. But he's very clearly in charge here.

[Uncle Vernon] took a few deep breaths and then forced his face into a smile, which looked quite painful.

'Er -- yes, Harry -- about this cupboard. Your aunt and I have been thinking ... you're really getting a bit big for it ... we think it might be nice if you moved into Dudley's second bedroom.'
(32)
Harry comments later that Vernon is trying to be nice to him. Why? As a palliative, so he won't ask about the letters anymore? Some misguided attempt to make Harry not *want* to go to Hogwarts?

'See,' he explained to Aunt Petunia through a mouthful of nails, 'if they can't deliver them they'll just give up.'

'I'm not sure that'll work, Vernon.'

'Oh, these people's minds work in strange ways, Petunia, they're not like you and me,' said Uncle Vernon, trying to knock in a nail with the piece of fruit cake Aunt Petunia had just brought him.
(34)
Again, Petunia's superior knowledge of magic is ignored... perhaps not coincidentally. She may be ashamed even to admit that she knows anything more about it than your average Muggle.

On Sunday morning, Uncle Vernon sat down at the breakfast table looking tired and rather ill, but happy.

'No post on Sundays,' he reminded them happily as he spread marmalade on his newspapers, 'no damn letters today--'
(34-35)
Okay, this is funny, but it's hard not to feel bad for old Vernon. It hasn't even been a week of getting letters, and he's already out of his mind.

They had just finished when the owner of the hotel came over to their table.

' 'Scuse me, but is one of you Mr H. Potter? Only I got about an 'undred of these at the front desk.'
(36)
An obvious question presents itself: Would Hogwarts go to such lengths to elicit a response from any student, or is it just because it's Harry?

And here's another: If you don't *want* to go to Hogwarts, what happens? Presumably they'd go to any lengths to get Harry to come, but what about... Hermione, say? If she'd not wanted to come? Do they allow magic-users to go untrained?

Of course, his birthdays were never exactly fun -- last year, the Dursleys had given him a coat-hanger and a pair of Uncle Vernon's old socks. (36)
I always thought the bizarre Dursley gifts were funny-strange... Not the harsh reality of abusive parents -- that he'd get nothing -- but gifts of Dahl-esque useless junk.

If you want to take this a little further, you could say that the Dursleys feel guilty on some level for their mistreatment of Harry -- the fact that Vernon realizes he can be nicer to Harry if he chooses suggests that he knows full well he's not treating Harry right. Or they're possibly deluding themselves that giving any kind of gift is enough. More than Harry deserves, even.

And if you want to take it even further -- socks! Dumbledore's vision in the mirror, and the ticket to Dobby's freedom... The Dursleys mistreat Harry, yet they give him the gift of protection from Voldemort. And Harry wraps the Sneakoscope in one of Vernon's socks to shut it up (61 PoA UK paperback)... deafness to the signs of the magical world, to the real (not paranoiac) dangers it presents.

It's all about the socks, yo.


Past re-read posts are saved in memories here.
Page 1 of 2 << [1] [2] >>

Date: 2005-01-06 07:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolfie-thu.livejournal.com
Harry comments later that Vernon is trying to be nice to him. Why?
Maybe because he's afraid that Dumbledore might be coming to check up on them, and'll find out the way Harry's been treated?

you could say that the Dursleys feel guilty on some level for their mistreatment of Harry
Isn't it mentioned somewhere in the books that Harry was given an allowance, at least up until age...err...can't remember what age. Maybe eight? Maybe around the time he first started showing signs of magic?

Date: 2005-01-06 07:06 am (UTC)
pauraque: patterned brown and white bird flying on a pale blue background (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
Age six. And yes, it could be when he started showing magic.

Date: 2005-01-06 07:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fernwithy.livejournal.com
I always assumed that they put Harry in the second bedroom for no reason other than that they realized they were being watched--keeping one of the boys in a cupboard hardly qualifies them as perfectly normal, thank you very much.

An obvious question presents itself: Would Hogwarts go to such lengths to elicit a response from any student, or is it just because it's Harry?

I think it's not just because it's Harry, but because of Harry's particular situation--he's been forcibly kept from the letters, and the Dursleys need to be presented with a show of magical force to not only get Harry to school, but remind them that they don't have ultimate control over his fate.

And here's another: If you don't *want* to go to Hogwarts, what happens? Presumably they'd go to any lengths to get Harry to come, but what about... Hermione, say? If she'd not wanted to come? Do they allow magic-users to go untrained?

It's a good question. If I were writing it, I'd assume that when the people came with the letter (JKR says that how Muggle-borns get their letters, right?), a family that decided not to have the child go to Hogwarts would have their memories modified about the whole event, at any rate. From Justin Finch-Fletchly, we know that there's at least enough time to argue the parents out of Eton, so it probably doesn't happen all in one day. Possibly, like aggressive colleges trying to acquire star athletes, they take them to Diagon Alley a throw a lot of shiny things their way?

Anyway, I wanted to comment on your note in the last chapter about Dudley possibly not being as stupid as Harry thinks he is. This is a point that I'm working in my current fic, so I've thought about it quite a lot. Dudley may really not be terribly smart about school things--or he may not bother, as Vernon and Petunia will cover for him anyway--but he's a decidedly sharp observer. He notes in CoS that Harry hasn't gotten any letters, which Harry has been hiding. In OotP, he's the one who knows Harry is upset and that it has to do with someone named Cedric. He's aware of the restrictions on underage magic, though Vernon and Petunia seem to forget about them sometimes. He's not nice about how he uses his observations, but giving Dudley his due, he's not just a lump who notices nothing.

Date: 2005-01-07 11:44 pm (UTC)
pauraque: patterned brown and white bird flying on a pale blue background (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
Possibly, like aggressive colleges trying to acquire star athletes, they take them to Diagon Alley a throw a lot of shiny things their way?

Hee, I like that.

And yes, Dudley can be quite observant. He also seems very interested in Harry, particularly after the first book. I think there's some jealousy there.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] rosetapestry.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-11 04:09 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2005-01-06 07:46 am (UTC)
maidenjedi: (booksnotboys)
From: [personal profile] maidenjedi
And here's another: If you don't *want* to go to Hogwarts, what happens? Presumably they'd go to any lengths to get Harry to come, but what about... Hermione, say? If she'd not wanted to come? Do they allow magic-users to go untrained?

!!!!!

Have you ever watched Babylon 5? On the show, people with psychic ability are monitored and taken away from their families at an early age for training with the PsiCorps. It's not exactly voluntary, either. This also makes me think of the way young Force-potentials are discovered and taken to the Jedi Academy in Star Wars. Anyway, where I'm going with this is, maybe it wasn't a choice until recently. I would imagine that having a great many Muggleborns suddenly joining the wizarding world every year presents a greater security risk for the Ministry, but what about the risk of leaving a untrained Muggleborn in the Muggle world? Hmm.

In any event, I imagine this deluge is because it's Harry. Dumbledore knows the people he is dealing with.

(Okay, so the Petunia/Vernon stuff in this chapter toys mercilessly with all my theories, and I'm thinking about it. I'm leaning toward Vernon's having had such authority where Harry's concerned for so long might be at work here, and it simply deteriorates over the next few years, culminating in what happens in OotP. Hmm.)

Date: 2005-01-06 08:53 am (UTC)
ext_5487: (Default)
From: [identity profile] atalantapendrag.livejournal.com
...So I'm not the only one who sees a resemblance (behavior-wise) between Dumbledore and Bester?

hurray for colliding fandoms!

From: [personal profile] maidenjedi - Date: 2005-01-06 09:16 am (UTC) - Expand

Hp & Bab5 parallels.

From: [identity profile] neotoma.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-06 03:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

Re: Hp & Bab5 parallels.

From: [identity profile] ani-bester.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-08 07:33 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] chresimos.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-06 04:11 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] erinellii.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-06 07:54 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2005-01-06 07:53 am (UTC)
maidenjedi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] maidenjedi
Also, *good* observation on the socks thing.

And I like [livejournal.com profile] fernwithy's note about the letter deluge being about Harry's situation. Nothing like a constant stream of owls to remind a couple of daft Muggles that they are not the be-all and end-all.

Date: 2005-01-06 08:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malograntum.livejournal.com
In the previous edition of our HP book analysis,
We typed all day and night through tendonitis and through calluses,
Pondering the characters and waxing pedagogical
On JKR's vast ignorance of things herpetological.



*dies*

Date: 2005-01-06 09:00 am (UTC)
ext_5487: (Default)
From: [identity profile] atalantapendrag.livejournal.com
'I WANT MY LETTER!' [Harry] shouted. (31)
Aw, baby's first capslock.



Harry/capslock OTP!

OMGTHEIRLOVEISSOANGSTY!!111!!!

Date: 2005-01-06 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] underlucius.livejournal.com
“Modern major general!”

*squees*

That’s so clever – I do this sort of thing from time to time and it’s nice to see someone else just as silly!

xxx

Date: 2005-01-06 01:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sine-que-non767.livejournal.com
AHAHA! I love it!

On JKR's vast ignorance of things herpetological.

OMG. Never put two and two together on that one.

Date: 2005-01-06 01:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] theatresm.livejournal.com
Aw, baby's first capslock.

*snigger* Harry isn't the only one around here getting his snark on....

Date: 2005-01-06 02:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] amanuensis1.livejournal.com
The meter in your G&S filk! YAYYYY!!!

*keeps giggling over "baby's first capslock"*

Date: 2005-01-07 11:45 pm (UTC)
pauraque: patterned brown and white bird flying on a pale blue background (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
Hee, I thought I was the only one who squeed over meter!

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] amanuensis1.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-08 12:03 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2005-01-06 03:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gmth.livejournal.com
Whoops, deleted my last comment because I realized I screwed up majorly. I thought, for some reason, that we were talking about Harry being in his cupboard until school started again, not until the summer holidays started. It actually wasn't such a long time after all, if Dudley's birthday is in mid-June (as theorized by the Lexicon).

Date: 2005-01-06 04:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] neotoma.livejournal.com
By the time he was allowed out of his cupboard again, the summer holidays had started[...] (28)

That indicates that Dudley's birthday is sometime before summer... when does the British school break?

I do not know if the Smeltings' uniform is non-U or not, but it's certainly *tacky*.

Do they allow magic-users to go untrained?

I don't think they do. Given the way that Muggles have their memories diddled with when they're attacked or scammed by wizards, I think that parents who object get their brains scrambled until they agree to their child going to Hogwarts. And any child who objected would be treated likewise -- after all, Shacklebolt was able to confuse Marietta Edgecomb into denying what she had witnessed as part of the DA, I'm sure the Hogwarts representatives are able and authorized to do something similiar to resistant students.

And if you want to take it even further -- socks!

It's all about the socks.

Date: 2005-01-06 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seventines.livejournal.com
That indicates that Dudley's birthday is sometime before summer... when does the British school break?

Around the 20th of July in England and Wales. Harry might have been in that cupboard for some time :(

Date: 2005-01-06 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hilarita.livejournal.com
Stonewall: As an adult reader, I giggled somewhat, as my first association was with the gay rights organisation. Unless there's more hidden slashiness than I'm really prepared to countenance, I suspect the name was primarily chosen to give the impression of a rather grim kind of place.

Dudley's uniform was rather non-U: Well, it's certainly deeply tasteless, but that's entirely consistent with lesser public schools. All the decent colours will have been nicked by, say, Eton and Winchester, or even by the older grammar schools. The hat and the stick are probably an effort to mimic the top-hat approach of Eton. The stick must be surprisingly useful to allow Smeltings boys to fight off all the real kids in the neighbourhood who probably go round calling the Smeltings kids a bunch of flaming poofters.

Do they allow magic-users to go untrained? I would imagine not. I mean, if incidents like Harry's were allowed to go on across a lifetime, then it wouldn't be long before people started to wonder what was going on. It's one of the more sinister aspects, as [livejournal.com profile] ajhalluk has pointed out - you're forcibly assimilated into the magical world, practically divorced from your parents. But presumably Fudge sees the human collateral damage as something that has to be suffered for the good of the wizarding world.

Date: 2005-01-06 07:02 pm (UTC)
ext_2233: Writing MamaDeb (Default)
From: [identity profile] mamadeb.livejournal.com
Oh, don't just blame this on Fudge. I'm sure it's gone on for centuries.

What does happen to an untrained wizard, I wonder? Other than not, say, knowing spells to render fire harmless while you're being burned.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] imkalena.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-06 09:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] mamadeb.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-06 09:54 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] imkalena.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-06 10:20 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] mamadeb.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-06 10:36 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] schnoogle.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-06 11:58 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] hilarita.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-07 10:40 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] likethemodel.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-07 05:30 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] imkalena.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-08 12:25 am (UTC) - Expand

*giggles*

Date: 2005-01-06 11:33 pm (UTC)
ext_18328: (Default)
From: [identity profile] jazzypom.livejournal.com
I always thought the bizarre Dursley gifts were funny-strange... Not the harsh reality of abusive parents -- that he'd get nothing --but gifts of Dahl-esque useless junk.

Really, I have nothing to contribute to your discussion - this comment made me giggle like an adolescent school girl (and I haven't been one of those in a while!). I do wonder why they even give him gifts if they are so useless and random.



Re: *giggles*

Date: 2005-01-07 10:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hilarita.livejournal.com
I suppose it's because they want Harry to think that he's not being neglected (even though he is). Neglected children don't get presents, therefore, Harry must. However, he can't get a proper present, otherwise he might get above himself.

Date: 2005-01-07 12:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] schnoogle.livejournal.com
Socks. (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/socks.html)

^^

Date: 2005-01-07 12:26 am (UTC)
ext_6866: (Hmmmm..)
From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com
I get the feeling the Dursleys are supposed to be showing fear of Harry even while they mistreat him. When he starts showing signs of magic I think they redouble their efforts to make him normal but also start playing nice nice in case he turns them into toads. They probably hope to keep him from Hogwarts by force but are still afraid of what he can do to them.

I love the whole giving of bad gifts btw...it changes the Dursleys from tragic to comic. And while they would be better people if they realized Harry was not to blame for his situation and loved him, they really do seem badly used by the WW.

Dudley's uniform strikes me as another one of those ways that the books contradict what they say...I know Elkins did an essay on class in the books where she pointed out that Rowling makes a point of tearing apart the Dursley's pretensions early in each book, yet elsewhere creates a world that relies on a lot of the same comforting stereotypes that we associate with none other than tweedy Aunt Marge. There's the friendly lower class cockneys and tea ladies who call Harry "love." Above it was pointed out that JKR says everybody magical gets a Hogwarts letter, but the closest we get to a working class in Hogwarts' student body is the Muggleborn Creeveys. There aren't any Stans at Hogwarts we've seen yet. Most kids we know have parents who work in the Ministry--Luna's father owns a newspaper.

Dudley's uniform seems on one hand like a skewering of pretension--he's going to a ridiculous school where the kids wear boaters and strange uniforms like they do at Eton. If Harry went to a regular school I'd figure it was a joke on how silly all that stuck up stuff is. But then it's turned on its head because Harry goes to Hogwarts, which comes out of that same tradition. So it's more like Dudley looks bad because he's going to a cheap imitation of a fine school, while Harry was "down for Hogwarts" since he was a baby. If the Dursley's pretensions are being mocked, it seems it's really from above and not below. Harry's not only better for not aspiring to go to the right kind of school, but better because he doesn't have to aspire to it. He's there.

Date: 2005-01-07 04:43 am (UTC)
ext_7739: (fish wish by pauraque)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/
I've rarely been happier to have something be my fault. ;)

Desperately seeking icons:

'I WANT MY LETTER!' [Harry] shouted. (31)

Aw, baby's first capslock.


and

It's all about the socks, yo.

Date: 2005-01-10 01:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] semirose.livejournal.com
I'm sorry, they're not very good. I'll try and find some better pics and make better ones.
Image
Image

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] pauraque - Date: 2005-01-10 03:37 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] amythis.livejournal.com - Date: 2005-01-11 01:58 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2005-01-07 05:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] likethemodel.livejournal.com
And here's another: If you don't *want* to go to Hogwarts, what happens? Presumably they'd go to any lengths to get Harry to come, but what about... Hermione, say? If she'd not wanted to come? Do they allow magic-users to go untrained?

I don't think the ministry would simply allow a muggleborn to go untrained. It's seems too dangerous, what with the bouts of magic during extreme situations and the chance that the untrained wizard's magic would be discovered, which would put their[wizarding] world in jeopardy.

Date: 2005-01-07 06:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lemongrove.livejournal.com
Of course, his birthdays were never exactly fun -- last year, the Dursleys had given him a coat-hanger and a pair of Uncle Vernon's old socks. (36)

This always struck me as very very odd...why on earth would the Dursleys' even bother with a semblance of birthday normalcy for Harry when everything else they do for him is anything but normal child-raising tactics? What is it about them giving him things? I know Harry's allowance was brought up before (http://www.livejournal.com/users/pauraque/166247.html?thread=2236007#t2236007), and when Harry had mentioned that point, I just kind of stared at the book with a "huh?" expression, as well. Is this really just for humor's sake?

I don't know if it's taking it too far, but I want to draw it back to Lily's protection -- in order for the "place he calls home" to remain as such, perhaps there has to be some measure of giving involved? And not just the basic necessities giving. I don't have all of the books with me, but I remember in GoF the Dursleys' sending Harry a tissue for his Christmas present. What's up with that!? Why would the Dursleys, who have never shown any inclination to exert any extra effort when it comes to Harry get up, consciously package a tissue, set it with postage and send it to a school that they would rather pretend didn't exist in a world they have shown nothing but hatred toward? For humor's sake? This is something clearly out of the ordinary -- something screamingly out of place.

Perhaps this has something to do with the letters that Dumbledore had been sending to Petunia culminating in the final letter left with Harry on her doorstep? Maybe the reason for the "missing 24 hours" between the Potter's deaths and Harry's arrival is because Dumbledore had been expressly detailing the stipulations of Harry staying at number four. Sure, PS says that Petunia screams when seeing the bundled baby on her doorstep, but JKR has absolutely said (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/faq_view.cfm?id=55) that Dumbledore had been in contact with her (and not Vernon as well) before this moment. It seems that Harry can't be forcibly put out of the house for the protection to remain in place (OotP's howler)...I wouldn't be overly surprised that gift-giving would turn out to be yet another bind of the protection spell.

Any ideas?

Date: 2005-01-07 11:47 pm (UTC)
pauraque: patterned brown and white bird flying on a pale blue background (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
I don't think you're taking it too far; it sounds plausible to me.

Date: 2005-01-07 07:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] julia-fractal.livejournal.com
Just wanted to squee over your opening poem and this chapter of PS.
The whole endless letters debacle was what made me first fall in love with the HP books.

Thank you so much for your brilliant, witty, and insightful re-read posts!

Date: 2005-01-07 11:48 pm (UTC)
pauraque: patterned brown and white bird flying on a pale blue background (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
Thanks! I'm really enjoying these chapters too.

Date: 2005-01-07 12:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ryma36rpm.livejournal.com
An obvious question presents itself: Would Hogwarts go to such lengths to elicit a response from any student, or is it just because it's Harry?

I think most people would realise after the fourth letter or so, to reply to the damn letters, accepting or declining. I don't think people indulge in avoidance on the level that the Dursleys do when they literally run away from it. Doesn't Colin Creevy say that his family were relieved to have things explained?

I secretly think Petunia may have received a Hogwarts letter and refused. It explains why she embraced Muggledom so completely when you would expect someone with a witch sister to be more tolerant.

Do they allow magic-users to go untrained?
I assumed if you refused as a child, you weren't interested in your gift and, like most gifts, it would diminish as you grew older. Harry tells Hagrid that he's never done magic, and the only times anything magical has occurred was when he was frightened. Little things can easily be rationalised, so I wouldn't imagine the Ministry is overly concerned. The Prime Minister knows of the Wizarding World's existance - a hundred other people in the know isn't a huge breach of security to me. Seems a bit cruel to Oblivate people who don't join you.


Also, I love [livejournal.com profile] prongsphile theory on the Dursley's gifts to Harry.

Date: 2005-01-07 11:50 pm (UTC)
pauraque: patterned brown and white bird flying on a pale blue background (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
Harry tells Hagrid that he's never done magic, and the only times anything magical has occurred was when he was frightened.

He also does magic accidentally when he's angry, which should worry the Dursleys if they realize it...

Seems a bit cruel to Oblivate people who don't join you.

The way Obliviation is (over-)used in the books _does_ seem cruel, though. In GoF, they're Obliviating Muggles all over the place without a second thought.

Date: 2005-01-08 01:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vvvexation.livejournal.com
Again, Petunia's superior knowledge of magic is ignored... perhaps not coincidentally. She may be ashamed even to admit that she knows anything more about it than your average Muggle.

This seems very likely, given her reaction in OotP when she lets slip that she knows what dementors are.

The letters

Date: 2005-01-14 07:01 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
This is a great series of comments! Thanks!


"Would Hogwarts go to such lengths to elicit a response from any student, or is it just because it's Harry?"

I don't think this is standard Hogwarts procedure, but rather Hagrid enjoying himself. He has been given the assignment of making sure Harry gets his letter, and have even been granted leave to do magic to insure that he gets it, and goes a bit over the top when the Dursleys confiscate the letters. "I'm -- er -- not supposed ter do magic, strictly speakin'. I was allowed ter do a bit ter follow yeh an' get yer letters to yeh an' stuff -- one o' the reasons I was so keen ter take on the job --" (p48)

I would assume that children in wizarding families, or half wizarding families that know about magic, just get the letter, whereas muggleborn children would get a visit from a Hogwarts or Ministry representative as well, explaining about the wizarding world etc. Since Harry's family knows about magic and have had a witch in the familiy, I don't think he would normally have gotten more than the first letter, but since he is who he is (and Dumbledore thinks there might be a problem getting to Harry, p44), Hagrid is sent as well.

- Clara

Date: 2005-01-22 08:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] black-dog.livejournal.com
[Semi-personal to [livejournal.com profile] pauraque: I tend to fade in and out of fandom these days, like a coastal AM station when you're driving across the desert, but I feel like an oaf for not replying to your shout-out here. Didn't mean to be boorish, but as I told [livejournal.com profile] sistermagpie, I was sort of on walkabout for a while.

By the way, did you know you can sing "Cool for Cats" to the tune of "A Modern Major General?" (Close enough, anyway.) Now you do! And now just try and forget it. The mind is a terrible thing. :) ]

Date: 2005-01-23 07:56 pm (UTC)
pauraque: patterned brown and white bird flying on a pale blue background (Default)
From: [personal profile] pauraque
Don't worry about it! I know not everyone has as little of a life as I do. :)

Did you know you can sing "Amazing Grace" to the tune of the Gilligan's Island theme?

Socks

Date: 2005-01-31 06:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ixchelmala.livejournal.com
Wow, I linked here from your most recent entry, of which I was directed to by a friend and I just wanted to say that aside from the amazing job you're doing with analyzing the books chapters, your take on all of it is really refreshing and complete (meaning the innuendo and all)

But here, you've brought my attention into a clear beam of light on the subject of the Dursley's gift of socks and their possible motivations.

It's always bugged me that with socks being such a grand symbol of freedom, love, and thensome, that it seems almost taken for granted in the Muggle world. Much like the gift, however grudgingly given, the Dursley's give to Harry.

But then you mention the possibility of guilt on the Dursleys and if that is why they *do* give Harry socks, because they know they should be treating him better, well then it kinda gives me a tiny flicker of hope.

Call me a hippie, but I'm ever the optimist. Well maybe no, I have no hope for someone like Umbridge, but that's a whole other can of worms
Page 1 of 2 << [1] [2] >>

Profile

pauraque_bk: (Default)
pauraque_bk

April 2017

S M T W T F S
      1
23 4 5678
91011 12 13 1415
16171819202122
23242526272829
30      

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Mar. 30th, 2026 01:59 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios