GoF 22

[pauraque_bk]

Well, now that I've joined the ranks of the unemployed, I should be able to pick up the pace with these. Must finish my merry_smutmas, too. Now fandom really IS my life.

I haven't had time to catch up with Chapter 21, though I do highly recommend the Life of Brian thread. XD


GoF 22: The Unexpected Task

'The Yule Ball is approaching -- a traditional part of the Triwizard Tournament and an opportunity for us to socialise with our foreign guests. Now, the ball will be open only to fourth-years and above -- although you may invite a younger student if you wish --'

Lavender Brown let out a shrill giggle. Parvati Patil nudged her hard in the ribs, her face working furiously as she, too, fought not to giggle. (337)

I don't know if this is what they're laughing about (neither does Harry), but it does seem a little strange to have a rule like that, doesn't it?

Harry's insides seemed to curl up and shrivel. 'Dance partners?'

He felt himself going red. 'I don't dance,' he said quickly.

'Oh, yes, you do,' said Professor McGonagall irritably. 'That's what I'm telling you. Traditionally, the champions and their partners open the ball.'

Harry had a sudden mental image of himself in a top hat and tails, accompanied by a girl in the sort of frilly dress Aunt Petunia always wore to Uncle Vernon's work parties.

'I'm not dancing,' he said.

'It is traditional,' said Professor McGonagall firmly. 'You are a Hogwarts champion, and you will do what is expected of you as a representative of this school. So make sure you get yourself a partner, Potter.'

'But -- I don't --' (338)

I'm too old! Too dangerous! Too gay! Wait, wrong book.

This is actually adorable. Totally in character and age-appropriate. One thing I will say for GoF is that the romance is handled much more sanely than in HBP. It doesn't overpower the main storyline, nor does it turn the characters into simpering idiots. They are quite shallow in GoF, but... they're also fourteen.

[I]t was amazing how many girls Hogwarts suddenly seemed to hold; he had never quite noticed that before. (338)

Behold, the sexual awakening of Harry Potter! (Or maybe it's that he never noticed the girls because he was too busy ogling Cedric.)

'[Rita] wants a new angle, Hagrid,' said Ron wisely[...] 'You were supposed to say Harry's a mad delinquent!'

'But he's not!' said Hagrid, looking genuinely shocked.

'She should've interviewed Snape,' said Harry grimly. 'He'd give her the goods on me any day[...]' (340-341)

Well, she really should have asked Snape if she wanted to play that angle. She's not a very good reporter if she couldn't work out which teachers liked him and which didn't.

It seemed to be fact, however, that [Dumbledore] had booked the Weird Sisters. Exactly who or what the Weird Sisters were Harry didn't know, never having had access to a wizard's wireless, but he deduced from the wild excitement of those who had grown up listening to the WWN (Wizarding Wireless Network) that they were a very famous musical group. (341)

*bzzzzzzzzz* No, I'm sorry Jo, one wizarding musical group is not an adequate representation of magical youth culture. Thanks for playing our game.

Some of the teachers, like little Professor Flitwick, gave up trying to teach them much when their minds were so clearly elsewhere; he allowed them to play games in his lesson on Wednesday, and spent most of it talking to Harry about the perfect Summoning Charm he had used during the first task of the Triwizard Tournament. (341)

I've had teachers like this -- loved them. You'd think Harry et al would feel more warmly towards Flitwick, since he seems to be the "cool" teacher.

'Who're you going with, then?' said Ron.

'Angelina,' said Fred promptly, without a trace of embarrassment.

'What?' said Ron, taken aback. 'You've already asked her?'

'Good point,' said Fred. He turned his head and called across the common room, 'Oi! Angelina!'

Angelina, who had been chatting to Alicia Spinnet near the fire, looked over at him.

'What?' she called back.

'Want to come to the ball with me?'

Angelina gave Fred an appraising sort of look.

'All right, then,' she said, and she turned back to Alicia and carried on chatting, with a bit of a grin on her face. (343)

This reads to me like Angelina and Fred were already a couple, and Harry just didn't know. Interracial couples sure are common in the HP books, and GoF is no exception. Fred/Angelina, Cedric/Cho, Harry/Parvati and Ron/Padma of course, and Seamus/Lavender (if you think of Lavender as black, as she is in the films).

I think it's nice and not overdone, though I know there are those who find something fishy in the way that Ginny and Harry start out with SOs of different races, but find True Love with one another.

He found it hard to concentrate in Snape's Antidote test, and consequently forgot to add the key ingredient -- a bezoar -- meaning that he received bottom marks. (345)

A reminder of Snape's association with bezoars, which is supposed to be a clue in HBP.

So, Harry gets up the nerve to ask Cho, but Cedric has already asked her. I notice that unlike at my high school, people are very reluctant to ditch a person once they've agreed to date if someone "better" comes along.

He had been starting to quite like Cedric -- prepared to overlook the fact that he had once beaten him at Quidditch, and was handsome, and popular, and nearly everyone's favourite champion. Now he suddenly realised that Cedric was in fact a useless pretty-boy who didn't have enough brains to fill an eggcup. (347)

Aww! Well, they could always go the fandom route and make it a threesome. Might make the dancing awkward, though.

Ron [was] sitting ashen faced in a distant corner. Ginny was sitting with him, talking to him in what seemed to be a low, soothing voice.

[...]

'He -- er -- just asked Fleur Delacour to go to the ball with him,' said Ginny. She looked as though she was fighting back a smile, but she kept patting Ron's arm sympathetically. (347)

Wow. I sort of didn't believe/recall it when folks mentioned that Ginny used to have a perfectly good personality but... here it is. Would HBP!Ginny comfort Ron after he embarrassed himself? HELL no.

'I asked [Cho] to go with me just now,' Harry said dully, 'and she told me [she was going with Cedric].'

Ginny had suddenly stopped smiling. (348)

She wanted to go with Cho! No, wait, I guess this is her being upset that Harry asked someone other than her. Even though she already has a date. Maybe.

'This is mad,' said Ron, 'we're the only ones left who haven't got anyone -- well, except Neville. Hey -- guess who he asked? Hermione!'

'What?' said Harry, completely distracted by this startling news. 'Yeah, I know!' said Ron, some of the colour coming back into his face as he started to laugh. 'He told me after Potions! Said she's always been really nice, helping him out with work and stuff -- but she told him she was already going with someone. Ha! As if! She just didn't want to go with Neville ... I mean, who would?' (348)

And Ron/Neville takes a crushing blow! (Actually, I don't know that anyone's ever written that pairing. Prove me wrong!)

Given the following "Hey, Hermione's a girl!" conversation, this reads like a simultaneous dis of both Neville and Hermione. Why would she want him? Why would he want her?

Neville/Hermione, now that's a pairing I could get behind. They're friends in PS/SS! It's rather heartbreaking that he seems to miss her here.

Also, why would Neville tell Ron he asked Hermione and she said she already had someone? It's not like Ron and Neville are friends. Perhaps Neville wanted to spare Ron the embarrassment of asking her and being turned down.

'Don't!' said Ginny, annoyed. 'Don't laugh--'

Just then Hermione climbed in through the portrait hole.

'Why weren't you two at dinner?' she said, coming over to join them.

'Because -- oh, shut up laughing, you two -- because they've both just been turned down by girls they asked to the ball!' said Ginny.

That shut Harry and Ron up. (348)

She's going with Neville, and Hermione is her friend at this point, so I wouldn't call this a Lily-esque "Don't mock people, it's wrong" thing exactly, it's more that she's taking it personally. Still, they are being jerks, so her mean comment here seems quite forgivable compared to the nasty stuff she says in HBP.

'I've already told you!' Hermione said, very angrily. 'I'm going with someone else!'

And she stormed off towards the girls' dormitories again.

'She's lying,' said Ron flatly, watching her go.

'She's not,' said Ginny quietly.

'Who is it, then?' said Ron sharply.

'I'm not telling you, it's her business,' said Ginny. (349)

There's the Ginny-Hermione friendship again, which we so rarely see direct evidence of.

If this is all supposed to be about Ron/Hermione, I don't think I get it. Ron's astounded that Hermione can even get a date, which doesn't sound like Sekrit Longing to me.

'Right,' said Ron, who looked extremely put out, 'this is getting stupid. Ginny, you can go with Harry, and I'll just --'

'I can't,' said Ginny, and she went scarlet too. 'I'm going with -- with Neville. He asked me when Hermione said no, and I thought ... well ... I'm not going to be able to go otherwise, I'm not in fourth year.' She looked extremely miserable. (349)

Aw, Neville gets no love. I'd go with him! Better him than any of these jerks.

But her misery is really supposed to indicate that she's desperate for Harry's sweet sweet lovin', but has been tragically stymied. HBP!Ginny would probably just ditch Neville and go with Harry instead. (HBP!Harry probably wouldn't have a problem with that.)


Previous GoF posts are saved in memories here.

Comments

[wootsauce.livejournal.com]

The rule about fourth years sounds like PROM! Do they have prom in england? I hope not, it's dumb.

As for snape, he really doesn't seem like the kind of person to give Skeeter the light of day, Potter Agenda or no.

Are there any interracial couples where both of the characters are nonwhite? Somehow I doubt it. Harry and Ginny both being white seems more as a byproduct of the culture in which the story is written, where most people (and most main characters!) are white, rather than any sort of racial commentary, though.

[asphodeline.livejournal.com]

No, no proms here or at least not until a decade or so ago when some of our schools stole the idea form the US.

We always had a traditional school dance though and in Scotland at least it was obligatory to do dancing as part of PE lessons in the run up to Christmas. *shudders at nasty memories*

[pauraque]

I never had a prom. I think I dropped out of school too soon.

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

And re: races in Hogwarts. I think that it's less of an issue than magical ability. And it's not like there's an Asian clique or a Black clique - that we see - in Hogwarts. What I'm trying to say is there there doesn't seem to be that type of subculture within the school.

Which does make me wonder about their history. The Hogwarts population seems to reflect the English population - mostly white (mostly English), some black, some Indian, a few East Asian. When and why did their parents immigrate? Wizards seem rather more insular than their muggle equivalents. And - correct me if I'm wrong - but I don't recall any overtly Northern or Scottish students - in the book. Which makes sense when thinking about the population concentrations of Britain, I suppose....

I don't really know where I'm going with this, except that the impression to me is that it's a direct transposition of the Real UK Population rather than a reflection of a more... contextually unique... wizarding population. Reflecting the history of wizardkind that we know of. If that makes any sense at all.

And? Re: HBP. XP XPX XPXPXPXPXPXPdasdfsf etc

[aubrem.livejournal.com]

Which does make me wonder about their history. The Hogwarts population seems to reflect the English population - mostly white (mostly English), some black, some Indian, a few East Asian. When and why did their parents immigrate? Wizards seem rather more insular than their muggle equivalents

I've wondered about this too. I suppose it could be that the numbers don't reflect the muggle population but rather that there are fewer black and asian students and those are muggleborn. If the numbers do reflect the population though and their wizard parents are immigrants - why? Why would they emigrate? The usual reason is economics - would the wizarding populations in the old countries have limited economic opportunities?

What ARE wizarding economic opportunites? How on earth does the wizarding economy work? I can't for the life of me imagine wizards growing food or producing raw goods. Surely there aren't enough of them to support such a sophisticated society if they are producing it all from the ground up. And surely if they did they'd use a lot of magic and that would be noticeably by muggles. They MUST be buying their raw materials from muggles. Does this mean they are selling TO muggles? Where there is importing there must be exporting. WHAT are they selling to muggles?

I must think on this.

[amythis.livejournal.com]

I know the movies aren't canon, but the actress for Cho was cast partly because of her Scottish accent. Also there are a few Mac/Mc-last names fwiw.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

Now he suddenly realised that Cedric was in fact a useless pretty-boy who didn't have enough brains to fill an eggcup.

This is one of my favoritest lines in the entire series. Jealousy's so cute. Or denial, either way. :-)

"So make sure you get yourself a partner, Potter."

Is it just me, or is that a rather harsh thing to say to one of your 14-year-old students?

Exactly who or what the Weird Sisters were Harry didn't know, never having had access to a wizard's wireless, but he deduced from the wild excitement of those who had grown up listening to the WWN (Wizarding Wireless Network) that they were a very famous musical group.

Okay, I call bullshit. There's a magical radio network in the country, yet there isn't a single radio in the country's *only* secondary school? At least, not one that students (or at least a quarter of them) have access to? Not likely. Moreover, if we do take this at face value, presumably *none* of the students have access to the WWN for ten months of the year, yet there are groups that are not only "very famous", but apparently geared towards the young market? How did they get so famous? How would even the pureblood kids know who the cool groups are if they don't listen to music for the portion of the year where they see their friends?

I think this is somewhere else that it's likely the Muggle-raised kids who aren't Harry or Hermione are desperate for home, along with Coke and ballpoints -- wirelesses with multiple stations, not to mention tapes (and newly, CDs) to play the new alternative bands or the pop superstars or whoever they happened to pick up over the summer, the same time that the pureblood kids are listening to the Weird Sisters mixed in with (probably much more) Celestina Warbeck and other stars of their parents' generation or older.

He found it hard to concentrate in Snape's Antidote test, and consequently forgot to add the key ingredient -- a bezoar -- meaning that he received bottom marks.

Is this supposed to read like it was unfair of Snape to give him low marks? Generally, whenever we hear that Harry is getting bad grades in Potions, it seems presented as Snape being horrible and acting on his dislike of Harry, but in most cases, including very clearly in this one, the marks seem entirely deserved.

Wow. I sort of didn't believe/recall it when folks mentioned that Ginny used to have a perfectly good personality but... here it is. Would HBP!Ginny comfort Ron after he embarrassed himself? HELL no.

Word.

If this is all supposed to be about Ron/Hermione, I don't think I get it. Ron's astounded that Hermione can even get a date, which doesn't sound like Sekrit Longing to me.

Yeah, I've never really gotten this. Actually *at* the ball, it seems terribly obvious that Ron is jealous (though it's possible he's jealous of Hermione), but here, he's so far from longing after her, that he openly *laughs* at the idea of anyone asking her, in front of close mutual friends, then later to her face. This is an incredibly crappy thing to do to one of your best friends, 14-year-old guy or not, and really doesn't strike me as any less vicious than Snape's "I see no difference" remark a couple chapters ago -- less out-of-bounds for him to *say* it, but more likely to be actually hurtful. (This, btw, was a big part of what established my opinion of Ron as a very well-written, normal teenage boy, and thus someone that I really couldn't stand.)

Better him than any of these jerks.

Again, word.

[wootsauce.livejournal.com]

If it implies anything about Snape, it seems to imply that he gives difficult tests. I agree though, I think in this case it's just supposed to show how extremely distracted he is, since we can presume that a bezoar is a very important ingredient in an antidote.

I don't get the whole wizarding radio thing at all.

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

And Word to everything you just said! Especially about Ron. He reads exactly like any normal teenage boy to me, which is the Nail In the Coffin of Harry's heterosexuality. Rowling obviously knows what straight teenage boys are like. I suppose that it's conceivable that she's aiming for Harry to be a late-bloomer.... Except that he very conspicuously and consistently takes notice of attractive young men. So BZZZZZZ on that one, JKR. I don't know what you're playing at, but you Can't Claim Ignorance.

And as for Ron/Hermione..... mmMMmmmmm I dunno. I definitely don't see it working out. But I do see some slipshod, off-balance, mutual attraction, very much in line with male/female friendships that develop during those hormonal years. Much as it's depicted in the books. Again, I don't know where Rowling is headed after HBP, but the off-kilter emotions, self-centred, misreading the other, wanting the other to be the-same-but-different Ron/Hermione - that rings very true to me. And isn't it similar to a relationship JKR has/had with a close male friend of her own? If that's what she's modelling it on, then it makes perfect sense that she would get it right. I just hope she doesn't try to 'fix' it (but 'fixing' things doesn't seem her style at all. ...until HBP).

[hilarita.livejournal.com]

Aw, Neville gets no love. I'd go with him! Better him than any of these jerks.

Yes, and from the film posters he's growing into a very nice looking young man. *watch the dirty woman with her tongue hanging out*

[ani-bester.livejournal.com]

And Ron/Neville takes a crushing blow! (Actually, I don't know that anyone's ever written that pairing. Prove me wrong!)

I've drawn it . . does that count?

What I find odd (and this is so utterlyr andom) is that the Wizards Qualify their wireless as the "Wizards' Wireless"

As oppossed to what? The muggles? Does that mean then that the Wizards based there's on the muggle idea? I kinda like that in so much as usualy JKR shows wizards as unaffected or contemptuous of muggle inventions. But maybe they borrowed this one.

Then again maybe it's just a name thing who knows.

I have actually I ahve worked up almost a rant wizards and electronics and some uninteded consequences of JKR's casual "electronics don't work around magic" bit, but I'll wait till you get there in GoF ^__^

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

Technically, it's "Muggle substitutes for magic" -- which means it should act on cameras, wristwatches, ballpoint pens (not canon, but I'd be surprised if they didn't work), etc, not just radios and walkie talkies.

They call nearly everything "Wizarding ____", like chess. For the purebloods, at least, it ought to be default: chess pieces move, so the game wherin you direct chess pieces to move around a board is called "chess". *Muggle* chess is that odd variation in which you have to actually move the pieces by hand. This supports my theory that despite (or because of) their isolation from the Muggle world, wizards are basically obsessed with their own specialness and feel the need to call attention to it whenever possible.

As to the Wireless, I suspect it's a new innovation, designed by some Muggle-borns and directly copying off the Muggle version. After all, why else note that it's "wireless" in a world with no wires? It also suggests that no one had ever considered coming up with any form of broadcast media until the twentieth century, and probably the mid-late part of the century; we never hear of any other forms.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

a useless pretty-boy who didn't have enough brains to fill an eggcup.

I so want an icon of this. :D

I also felt this was a much more honest picture of teenage school life than HBP. I totally missed the fact that Ginny was miserable because she wanted to go with Harry instead, since she seems much more comfortable around him now. And the whole thing between Ron, Harry and Hermione feels much more like close friends realizing they are growing up and moving on. I've always imagined that Hermione was normally shunned by the other girls (besides Ginny) because she is "one of the boys," yet she doesn't seem to do other "tomboy" things like enjoy Quidditch or such. I wonder if Hermione was hoping Viktor would ask her to the ball so she could feel a little grown up for once...

_{I've written Hermione/Neville, but it was wee}

[amythis.livejournal.com]

Lavender Brown let out a shrill giggle. Parvati Patil nudged her hard in the ribs, her face working furiously as she, too, fought not to giggle. (337)

Maybe they both fancy Colin.

So make sure you get yourself a partner, Potter.'

Just have to point out, McG doesn't say a female partner.

Behold, the sexual awakening of Harry Potter! (Or maybe it's that he never noticed the girls because he was too busy ogling Cedric.)

In support of probably-gay!Harry, he does not react positively to the plethora of girls. As in HBP, he seems annoyed/scared.

You'd think Harry et al would feel more warmly towards Flitwick, since he seems to be the "cool" teacher.

Yeah, he's one of the teachers Harry's neutral about, like Sprout.

This reads to me like Angelina and Fred were already a couple, and Harry just didn't know.

What about the "appraising look"?

...and Seamus/Lavender (if you think of Lavender as black, as she is in the films).

I've never been able to spot Lavender in the movies. What's a scene she's in?

Aww! Well, they could always go the fandom route and make it a threesome. Might make the dancing awkward, though.

Too bad McG specified only one partner.

Wow. I sort of didn't believe/recall it when folks mentioned that Ginny used to have a perfectly good personality but... here it is. Would HBP!Ginny comfort Ron after he embarrassed himself? HELL no.

By this point I've decided that, thanks to being possessed by Voldemort (or thanks to sloppy characterization), Ginny has a different personality in every book. But yes, this is one of her better books.

'This is mad,' said Ron, 'we're the only ones left who haven't got anyone -- well, except Neville.

Who's Dean going with?

Given the following "Hey, Hermione's a girl!" conversation, this reads like a simultaneous dis of both Neville and Hermione.

Maybe Ron thinks Hermione is too serious to be interested in romance, and thus he dismisses her.

Neville/Hermione, now that's a pairing I could get behind. They're friends in PS/SS!

That would be rather sweet. But wouldn't he mind all the time she spends with Harry & Ron?

It's not like Ron and Neville are friends. Perhaps Neville wanted to spare Ron the embarrassment of asking her and being turned down.

I hadn't thought of that. I guess Neville needed someone to talk to and mistakenly thought Ron would be sympathetic.

There's the Ginny-Hermione friendship again, which we so rarely see direct evidence of.

I knew it was in there somewhere.

If this is all supposed to be about Ron/Hermione, I don't think I get it. Ron's astounded that Hermione can even get a date, which doesn't sound like Sekrit Longing to me.

Before I first read GoF, Ron/Hermione honestly never occurred to me. Then I got to the end of the next chapter and I thought, "Wait, Ron and Hermione??? But he's so rude to her." Then I don't know, maybe I was won over by Rupert Grint or I had too many anvils falling on my head. These days I ship Harry/Ron/Hermione because it honestly makes more sense to me than any individual pairings.

'Right,' said Ron, who looked extremely put out, 'this is getting stupid. Ginny, you can go with Harry, and I'll just --'

"Stay in my room and wank about Krum."

Aw, Neville gets no love. I'd go with him! Better him than any of these jerks.

Yet Ginny doesn't appreciate him and instead flirts with Michael Corner. Neville does deserve better.

But her misery is really supposed to indicate that she's desperate for Harry's sweet sweet lovin', but has been tragically stymied. HBP!Ginny would probably just ditch Neville and go with Harry instead. (HBP!Harry probably wouldn't have a problem with that.)

As you said, no one thinks of ditching their dates when someone "better" comes along, but apparently it's OK to ignore your date. (Ron/Padma, Harry/Parvati, Ginny/Neville.)

I wonder, would Harry actually have gone with Ginny if she weren't going with Neville? And would they have had any better of a time? After all, Ron would still be pissed about Hermione/Krum and that'd ruin their evening.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

As in HBP, he seems annoyed/scared.

Harry kind of reminds me of Ron in some ways. Especially in GoF. One is that whenever he achieves what he wants, he doesn't want it anymore. For instance, earlier, he's bemoaning that all the girls are paying attention to the handsomer Cedric. Then when they're all over him, he's almost repulsed. (Of course, sexually aggressive women never come across terribly well in this series...)

Yeah, he's one of the teachers Harry's neutral about, like Sprout.

I'm surprised Harry doesn't like Flitwick more - he spent the whole lesson helping him and him alone. That's normally the kind of thing that wins him over.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Aw, Neville gets no love. I'd go with him! Better him than any of these jerks.

Neville actually manages to pay attention to his date, doesn't he? He's way nicer than Ron or Harry.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Plus he asks Hermione because he likes her personality (hard to tell with Ginny, what with her personality flucutating from book to book) rather than picking girls entirely based on their looks.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Behold, the sexual awakening of Harry Potter! (Or maybe it's that he never noticed the girls because he was too busy ogling Cedric.)

Wait, there are girls at Hogwarts? And I'm going to be forced to date them for the honor of the school? Do I have to date all of them? Yipes!

*bzzzzzzzzz* No, I'm sorry Jo, one wizarding musical group is not an adequate representation of magical youth culture. Thanks for playing our game.

The Weird Sisters are painfully lame. It's one of those cheats, like if Dumbledore is cool he's supposed to get a cool musical group for his dance, but it's just so obviously fake. She should really have just gone the Star Wars route--have an interesting band providing strange music who isn't supposed to be cool. I have to imagine certain groups of students (definitely some Ravenclaws and Slytherins) hating the Weird Sisters.

I notice that unlike at my high school, people are very reluctant to ditch a person once they've agreed to date if someone "better" comes along.

Err...is Harry supposed to be better here? Because Cedric seems definitely the better choice to me! (And Cho probably congratulates herself on her good taste after their disasterous courtship in OotP!) Ginny doesn't ditch Neville, but I don't know what she would have done if Harry had actually asked her himself--maybe just been so obviously miserable Neville would have dropped an anvil on his foot so she could go with Harry. As it is she seems to meet her future boyfriend on a date with Neville. Shades of later!Ginny, the way she always simultaneously proves how cool she is by hanging out with the lesser-thans, while still making it clear she's slumming.

Wow. I sort of didn't believe/recall it when folks mentioned that Ginny used to have a perfectly good personality but... here it is. Would HBP!Ginny comfort Ron after he embarrassed himself? HELL no.

PAY UP!:-D

This is the scene that I have painstakingly compared to Ginny's next appearance elsewhere here. She's always been this way my arse. Bring back better!Ginny!

This reads to me like Angelina and Fred were already a couple, and Harry just didn't know.

Or that they just have a friendship of the type they would go to the ball with each other if they aren't seeing anyone else.

Still, they are being jerks, so her mean comment here seems quite forgivable compared to the nasty stuff she says in HBP.

Yeah, I don't think she's being nasty here at all, really. She's already shown she's basically sympathetic to Ron, but if he's going to be a jerk she'll scold him.

If this is all supposed to be about Ron/Hermione, I don't think I get it. Ron's astounded that Hermione can even get a date, which doesn't sound like Sekrit Longing to me.

JKR seems to only really be able to bring out the romance in terms of jealousy. She may be able to show a couple of scenes where two characters get along (like Harry feels better after talking to Ginny in OotP, and assumes it's the chocolate) but nobody ever really thinks about another person romantically unless it's some outside force--well, monster--making them possessive. So of course Ron can't just think Hermione's pretty or something like that. He can just be obviously jealous.

But her misery is really supposed to indicate that she's desperate for Harry's sweet sweet lovin', but has been tragically stymied. HBP!Ginny would probably just ditch Neville and go with Harry instead. (HBP!Harry probably wouldn't have a problem with that.)

Like I said, I don't get that as much if only because Harry hasn't asked her to the ball anyway. Ron just tried to pawn her off on Harry, which would make her embarassed even if she did like him. She seems to me to be more reacting to the subject of Neville being a silly date. She even explains why she's going with him by saying she wouldn't be able to go otherwise, as if she couldn't just be going with him.

HBP!Ginny would make a big point of how cool she was to be going with Neville, and then probably share a big public kiss with Harry at the ball in front of their wrong dates to illustrate how perfect they are for each other.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

I think it's nice and not overdone, though I know there are those who find something fishy in the way that Ginny and Harry start out with SOs of different races, but find True Love with one another.

That, and I suppose adding to it that none of the other pairings worked out for long at all, iirc. Lavendar/Seamus apparently split in order for Ron/Lavendar to work out, Ron/Padma and Harry/Parvati never got off the ground, we saw Dean/Ginny fail, and one of the twins is macking on Muggle girls in HBP. To be fair, it could be George, I can't tell the difference.
And frankly, my opinion of Rowling's characterisation is such that I can't imagine Cedric/Cho lasting even if he had lived while she was aware the 'better' candidate - naturally Harry! ;) - wanted her. Harry's not allowed to lose at anything, after all.

Actually, I don't know that anyone's ever written that pairing. Prove me wrong!

I believe hackthis wrote some, in her mems. I've not read any, but if she wrote it, it's likely to be good.

It's not like Ron and Neville are friends.

No, but then, we're apparently sporadically expected to view Harry and Neville as friends, so I'm not certain JKR isn't going for the same effect here - the Trio are Neville's friends only when it makes them look compassionate.

HBP!Ginny would probably just ditch Neville and go with Harry instead. (HBP!Harry probably wouldn't have a problem with that.)

Agreed on both counts.

[lycoris.livejournal.com]

I think it's nice and not overdone, though I know there are those who find something fishy in the way that Ginny and Harry start out with SOs of different races, but find True Love with one another.

Oh, now why did you have to go and say that? I know that these morons are out there but I hadn't considered that one!

Sorry. It just REALLY annoys me when people say stuff like that. It's this pretend idea that everything is a slight against EVERYONE. It doesn't matter what you do, you are screwed because there's always someone who will insist that your book is a sexist, racist, homophobic thing and that you are the devil. It's so SILLY and it annoys me. *curtails ranting there*

Also, I think Rita spoke with Hagrid mainly because there is no way Snape would go anywhere near her, not even to insult Harry. He's got more sense than that.

[daughterlucifer.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about the race thing. Sometimes, the patronizing is perfectly clear (IE, in Go Ask Alice, all but the main druggie come from "broken homes"), but it often seems like people are drawing on the most minor infractions. And really, why can't we just stop being black and white or whatever...and just be human? (I'm also at the point where I'm ready to abolish gender, but to each their own.)

[vvvexation.livejournal.com]

This reads to me like Angelina and Fred were already a couple, and Harry just didn't know.

I don't think so, if only because Lee mentions in the next book that he's been trying to get her to go out with him for years. He wouldn't do that if she was already seeing his friend, right?

I guess this is her being upset that Harry asked someone other than her. Even though she already has a date. Maybe.

I read it as her being upset when she found out she missed her chance to go with Harry.

If this is all supposed to be about Ron/Hermione, I don't think I get it. Ron's astounded that Hermione can even get a date, which doesn't sound like Sekrit Longing to me.

I think the idea here is that he's just about to make the transition, or at least begin making the transition, to Sekrit Longing from Not Thinking Of Her As A Girl At All. Until this moment, he hadn't thought of her as dance-partner material for himself or in general; it's not that he didn't believe she could get a date but that he didn't think of her in terms of dating. Basically, his thinking seems to have been something like: Girls = Those Mysterious People Who Exist Mainly To Be Dating Material; Hermione = Friend; and of course Friends != Mysterious People Who Exist Mainly To Be Dating Material. When it finally occurred to him that he or Harry could ask her, I always read him as thinking of it as a platonic thing, like "we can't seem to get dates--but wait a minute, we've got this friend who, even though she obviously isn't really Dating Material (because she's a Friend), does in fact, now that I think about it, superficially resemble Dating Material (because she's a Girl, which I hadn't really noticed before because she's not like what Girls are supposed to be like)." And of course, he takes it for granted that she wouldn't have agreed to be someone else's date because c'mon, she's not Someone Who Dates People, she's just a Friend. For her to have been asked by someone else, she would have to be One of Those Mysterious Dating-Material People, and of course she isn't.

Ron's problem, in other words, is that he's got a subtler version, or perhaps an inverted version, of the attitude that men and women can never be truly platonic friends; the root of both attitudes seems to be the assumption that the set of People You Can Be Friends With and the set of People You Can Date/Be Attracted To are completely disjoint. As late as HBP, I think Ron still is struggling somewhat with the idea that Hermione is someone he's allowed to be attracted to, and he's definitely not having much luck figuring out how he's supposed to act on it; getting involved with Lavender is easier because he has a better idea what he's "supposed" to do in that situation.

(Whew. That got longer than I intended.)

[nakedcelt.livejournal.com]

Word, Word, Word.

[maidenjedi]

I'm a bit behind....so forgive me if someone already chimed in with this.

I think Parvati and Lavendar are giggling because either A) they are hoping one of them gets invited by Cedric Diggory or B) they have talked about possible crushes/couples like Harry/Ginny or one of themselves with someone younger.

Also, I think the shipping in the books progressed about how it does for the most part in real life. When you're 14, other things still matter and "dating" is utterly superficial. When you're 15/16, WAY different, guy or girl, gay or straight. Harry's only just noticing couples and whatnot in GoF. By HBP, he's been on a date, snogged a chick, and his best friends are finally waking up a bit. Not to mention, the "monster in his stomach" when he sees Ginny. It's all rather in-your-face - Harry's growing up in all possible ways.

It does kinda suck to have it sucker-punch the series, though, I agree. Feels like Harry would have other things distracting him. But Hogwarts is small and rather incestuous (in a non-Ron/Ginny kind of way!). It's inevitable.

[pilly2009.livejournal.com]

I don't know if this is what they're laughing about (neither does Harry), but it does seem a little strange to have a rule like that, doesn't it?


I did once hear it mentioned that they might have been giggling over Harry/Ginny (which either suggests that they're extremely observant or that Ginny does move in female circles after all); as for the prom-like rules...well, like someone already said, prom. I know at our high school, no student below grade eleven got to go to any of the proms.

Behold, the sexual awakening of Harry Potter! (Or maybe it's that he never noticed the girls because he was too busy ogling Cedric.)

=p He's still scared of them.

*bzzzzzzzzz* No, I'm sorry Jo, one wizarding musical group is not an adequate representation of magical youth culture. Thanks for playing our game.

I'd always figured that Quidditch was the main representation of wizarding youth culture (what with the way everyonewas bragging about their flying skills in PS); I suppose the Weird Sisters and Marvin the Mad Muggle comics could count here too, though.

I've had teachers like this -- loved them. You'd think Harry et al would feel more warmly towards Flitwick, since he seems to be the "cool" teacher.

I can't remember offhand things that would make Flitwick the cool teacher (or at least, on a different level than the neutral McGonagall and Sprout).

This reads to me like Angelina and Fred were already a couple, and Harry just didn't know.

Eh, I thought it read like UST, though I was so glad that (by all appearances) it was smacked down in books 6 and 7, if only to silence the massive OBHWF fanwave that exploded after GoF.

Still, they are being jerks, so her mean comment here seems quite forgivable compared to the nasty stuff she says in HBP.

I didn't much approve of Ginny's HBP development either, but I can't quite get behind this argument...being mean when they're laughing at Neville is okay, but being mean when Ron comes perilously close to calling her a whore is unheard of?

[skelkins.livejournal.com]

Aw, man, this is depressing. It's reminding me of how much I really liked Ginny before OotP. Hell, I used to defend Ginny to people who were dissin' on her. And now she's even beat out the Twins and Crouch Sr. for the coveted prize of Elkins's Most Hated Character In Series.

Pardon me, will you? I'm just going to sit here in the corner mourning Nice!Ginny for a while.

Alas, poor Nice!Ginny. We hardly knew ye.

[funwithrage.livejournal.com]

Enh, as someone who liked OoTP and HBP Ginny--it's possible that she's being nice to Ron here because Ron's not being overprotective and annoying? I mean, my reaction to "Oh, shit, I just got turned down..." would be very different than it would to "I will now interfere in your sex life."

[boxofdelights]

'I've already told you!' Hermione said, very angrily. 'I'm going with someone else!'

And she stormed off towards the girls' dormitories again.

'She's lying,' said Ron flatly, watching her go.


Oh, Ron. What did you just learn about trusting your best friends to tell you the truth? Oh, you didn't learn that lesson? Well, JKR loves you, she's going to give it to you again. The hard way.

I do understand why you expect your nearest&dearest to lie to you and then laugh at you for being fooled. But look: these two aren't ginger-haired twins, aren't named Fred&George, and don't have a history of lying to you!