pauraque_bk | neville, peter, and ljmatch





	
	
	
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How compatible with me are YOU?

Well, look at that. I guess I'm just not an especially compatible sort of guy. ;P

Still thinking about Peter, and flipping through PoA. Harry compares him to Neville at one point, and it reminded me of Dumbledore's comment about Neville at the end of PS, something about it taking courage to stand up to your enemies, but more to stand up to your friends. That's a sentiment Peter might appreciate. I wonder if Neville won't have some hard decisions to make towards the end of the series...

Also, a GIP (which I only recently figured out must stand for Gratuitous Icon Post). Jonathan Lethem is my boyfriend. I wanted to use the cover of "As She Climbed Across the Table" -- easily my favorite of his books -- but its graphics just weren't as interesting as the kangaroo.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

maidenjedi

Aww, the thing lied to you. :-)

You know, I think the "standing up to your friends" speech is definitely going to come back and haunt Neville. I also have some thoughts on Pettigrew.

See, we know that Pettigrew was a Gryffindor, but nothing we know or have seen of him really justifies that. He acts quite a bit like a Slytherin. And I have a theory about the Sorting Hat never being wrong, even if certain traits take a longer time to fully develop. Also, consider that Pettigrew owes a Harry a life debt of sorts now (was it PoA or GoF that it happened in? Dumbledore said it...). I think, at some point, Pettigrew will show his true bravery and Gryffindor colors by having to save Harry.

From:

pauraque

You know, I think the "standing up to your friends" speech is definitely going to come back and haunt Neville.

Yeah. I get the strong feeling that Neville is going to be someone to watch. It's a little strange that he's compared to Pettigrew at all. The initial effect is naturally to raise some sympathy for Peter, so that we can be more surprised when we learn the truth. But on re-reading, it makes us question whether Neville will stay as harmless as he appears.

See, we know that Pettigrew was a Gryffindor, but nothing we know or have seen of him really justifies that. He acts quite a bit like a Slytherin.

I don't entirely agree... I think it's difficult to pin him as one or the other. He does show courage in going against his friends and everyone's expectations by siding with Voldemort. But on the other hand, he does it by going behind their backs and setting up the situation so that Lily and James will be killed (rather than, say, killing them himself, as you might expect from a Gryffindor).

I think, at some point, Pettigrew will show his true bravery and Gryffindor colors by having to save Harry.

That's possible. He does show the potential to question Voldemort's decisions, as we see at the beginning of GoF. He seems torn between the life he had when he was younger, and everything he's invested since then in supporting Voldemort -- which he must have decided to do for a reason that seemed extremely compelling at the time. Unlike Snape (whose siding with Voldemort probably didn't come as a surprise to people who knew him), Peter went against the tide. Snape and Peter have both "switched sides" exactly once. Neither has shown much sign of switching back again.

You're right about the life debt to Harry. We'll see if he makes good on it. It would play into the theme of your choices making you who you are, but would severely test its elasticity -- how long can you go on choosing to do wrong before it's impossible to change? How long before you can no longer expect to be forgiven and taken back into the fold? This is, I think, a crucial question, and it would indeed be nice to see it addressed.

From:

theatresm.livejournal.com

The initial effect is naturally to raise some sympathy for Peter, so that we can be more surprised when we learn the truth. But on re-reading, it makes us question whether Neville will stay as harmless as he appears.

I'm getting the strange idea that this all ties into one of JKR's themes: misleading appearances -- which I have always taken to mean, for example, Harry and Ron's immature assumptions that Snape is evil simply because he isn't "nice" to them, isn't physically attractive, etc.

But this business with Peter is now forcing me to broaden the application of this (duh -- that's the point). While I had been working toward a more sympathetic view of Sirius (I'm a Snape supporter, and the "Prank" always tended to make me bristle), I think he just went back down couple notches during a re-read of the Shrieking Shack scene -- the comment, directly to Peter, that Sirius (if not MWP) thought he was weak and talentless.

Now, to all intents and purposes, we hear about James et al as "MWPP," which implies Peter was an accepted member of the clique; but Sirius' obvious contempt calls that into question. Peter must have somehow sensed this, I'm sure. Hence the defection.

So I'm very apprehensive for Neville -- if only because I think Ron shares certain traits with Sirius (quick temper and defensiveness, for example), and I think he might be the one to blow it and hurt Neville to the point of inciting a betrayal.

There are some wild cards, of course, as far as Neville's psychological problems due to his parents' torture. And I think OotP is going to throw us some curve balls when Harry learns the whole truth.

Thanks for the invite to join the discussion!

From:

pauraque

I'm getting the strange idea that this all ties into one of JKR's themes: misleading appearances

Good point. We know she's going to keep showing us characters acting in ways we don't expect; the only question is to how great a degree she'll do it.

I think he just went back down couple notches during a re-read of the Shrieking Shack scene -- the comment, directly to Peter, that Sirius (if not MWP) thought he was weak and talentless.

I have to admit, I rather shared Snape's outrage over the "prank" too, and I've never found Sirius to be a likeable character. However, in fairness, I'd point out that at the time of that scene, Sirius has been driven half-insane by his imprisonment and the adrenaline rush of confronting the man he blames for everything -- of course he's going to blurt out any hateful thing that comes into his head. (Much has been made of Snape's actions in the Shrieking Shack, but IMO that scene also shows Sirius, as well as Remus and Peter, at their shocking worst.)

However, the idea that Peter was sick of being looked down on rings true. Years of being humored and pitied by the popular kids can be worse than someone saying straight out that they despise you. It's the best theory I've heard as to why he turned.

Harry et al overhear the teachers saying this about Peter in Hogsmeade:

"Pettigrew... that fat little boy who was always tagging around after them at Hogwarts?" said Madam Rosmerta.

"Hero-worshipped Black and Potter," said Professor McGonagall. "Never quite in their league, talent-wise. I was often rather sharp with him. [...] [H]e always was hopeless at duelling ... should have left it to the Ministry..."

This highlights the parallel between him and Neville, of course. The main reason we think of Peter as being part of their group is that he was included in the writing of the map, but that could have been a one-shot thing. While the adults are reminiscing, they don't mention Remus (though of course this is so that we don't learn too much too soon). The emphasis is that James and Sirius were like brothers, and they had any number of other friends and hangers-on.

So I'm very apprehensive for Neville -- if only because I think Ron shares certain traits with Sirius (quick temper and defensiveness, for example), and I think he might be the one to blow it and hurt Neville to the point of inciting a betrayal.

I see that too. When I read your other post about the parallels between the generations, this was one of the first things that came to mind. The parallel only goes so far, though... neither Harry nor Hermione are much like either James or Remus in personality.

There are some wild cards, of course, as far as Neville's psychological problems due to his parents' torture.

Yes. And if that streetful of Muggles was killed by a man who had everyone thinking he was nearly talentless, well... that's a wild card too.

Thanks for the invite to join the discussion!

Pleasure's all mine. Btw, I was just reading some of your Snape backstory, and I noticed that you named his father Vergil. As it happens, in my current WIP I named him Virgil. Great minds think alike. ;)

From:

pauraque

The main reason we think of Peter as being part of their group is that he was included in the writing of the map

I meant to add that his being one of the Animagi suggests to me that Peter was close to Remus, more than that he was particularly close to James or Sirius. And James switching to Peter as Secret-Keeper makes more sense if he was switching to someone you wouldn't think of as a person James particularly trusted.

Overall, I think the idea of an inseparable MWPP clique is more fanon than canon. It's also worth considering that it's usually teenaged girls who form insular little groups of four or five. In my experience, boys form looser attachments at that age. They have more friends, but not as many close friends, and not as many mutual friends. Just my RL observation.

From:

theatresm.livejournal.com

Btw, I was just reading some of your Snape backstory, and I noticed that you named his father Vergil. As it happens, in my current WIP I named him Virgil. Great minds think alike. ;)

I admit that I've bought into the "purebloods used to tend toward classical names" idea (my!Snape's family tree looks like a list of the Roman emperors). For his father I wanted one that wasn't immediately identified with power and something that hinted at a (perceived) artsy-fartsy preoccupation -- so the writers came to mind.

Great minds think alike. ;)

Yup, often (though in my case I would qualify that with "slightly twisted mind"_ -- though the route they take to get there is usually quite interesting and different! (I'm as interested in Process as in Result.)

I wonder how much squeeage is going to ensue when OotP is read and various peoples' theories/fanon plots are confirmed....

From:

pauraque

For his father I wanted one that wasn't immediately identified with power and something that hinted at a (perceived) artsy-fartsy preoccupation -- so the writers came to mind.

My reason was nothing as logical as that. I did a drawing of the character (here), looked at it, and said, "Your name must be Virgil." Talk about different processes. ;)

My trees for Snape and associated characters are full of German, French, and Indian names, and tend to be rather tangled. Second marriages make for messy charts, and I decided early on that Snape and Sirius were first cousins, as well as that Mrs Lestrange is the Patil twins' aunt. Of course, your Snape is a nobleman. Mine is... not. :)

I wonder how much squeeage is going to ensue when OotP is read and various peoples' theories/fanon plots are confirmed....

Heh, yeah. "Augh, she stole my idea! Wait, that's a good thing..."

Recently I've been getting very curious about whether some kind of a Lily/Snape thing will turn out to be canon. The more I think about it, the more it seems strange that Snape never says anything about Lily in the books, while he bad-mouths James all the time. You'd think he'd at least mention her, just to get under Harry's skin. It seems like something odd is going on there, to me.

From:

theatresm.livejournal.com

I decided early on that Snape and Sirius were first cousins, as well as that Mrs Lestrange is the Patil twins' aunt. Of course, your Snape is a nobleman. Mine is... not. :)

I played with a Snape-Sirius connection and dropped a few hints -- but the bunny didn't go anywhere. Snape nobleman? Eh, not so much -- by fate rather than birth. (I was vastly amused when

lizbee said something about my NOT making him a "Gothic Prince." Far from it.) *grins evilly, and cackles because all should be revealed in the Wednesday update to BNW -- I think*

And I like Virgil's pic very much.

From:

pauraque

I played with a Snape-Sirius connection and dropped a few hints -- but the bunny didn't go anywhere.

It's partly just that they resemble each other, in my head. PoA talks about Sirius having "fathomless" eyes, which rather calls Snape to mind. And I've bought into the idea that the pureblood families are all closely related.

I was vastly amused when lizbee said something about my NOT making him a "Gothic Prince."

::laughs:: I think it was also in one of lizbee's entries that she mentioned the "ByronicAngst!Snape" cliché, which likewise cracked me up.

*grins evilly, and cackles because all should be revealed in the Wednesday update to BNW -- I think*

Cool! I've been following BNW for a while. I had meant to email you... I guess now's as good a time as any to give a little feedback. The thing I most enjoy about your work is how effectively the outside viewpoint is used. There are particular points where it's ringingly brought home that Miranda is sitting alone in a room with a powerful wizard, who could destroy her with a word, and she would have no way to defend herself. It's like being introduced to a captive wild animal (an experience I've had many times) -- the animal may seem tame, and may choose not to hurt you, but it's still fundamentally wild and dangerous, and you can never forget that. And, as Miranda finds, that is indeed fascinating and attractive.