Evil plots that actually work.
Jul. 10th, 2004 01:31 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pauraque_bkI ♥ ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
makesmewannadie. She knows why.
The following is distilled from discussions withchresimos and theatresm:
Voldemort's plan for getting to Harry in GoF is completely ludicrous. There's no reason at all to make Harry jump through the hoops of the Tournament, when Barty-as-Moody could have just handed Harry a Portkey at any time. Any sane person can see that it's a Rube Goldberg device -- of course, Voldemort and Crouch Jr are insane, so it can be argued as in-character.
Peter, however, is not insane -- at least, not in that way. He's repeatedly "gone over the plan in [his] head" (GoF Ch.1), and can't make it add up. He's so worried about it that he tells Voldemort so to his face, continuing to press the issue even after V tells him to shut up about it, and threatens him with "the full extent of Lord Voldemort's wrath".
Despite his evident misgivings, Peter carries out his part of the plan. Or does he?
Peter's job during the whole Tournament business is to keep Crouch Sr under Imperius. But as we know, Crouch Sr escaped. According to Crouch Jr, Peter "neglected his duty" and "was not watchful enough" (GoF Ch.35).
Then we have the resurrection potion, for which Peter gives up his right hand. But what Voldemort may not realize is that Peter's right hand is missing a finger (JKR states this directly at the moment that he severs the hand), and it isn't even his dominant hand! From the fact that Peter cut off one of his right-hand fingers, we may guess that he is left-handed, and PoA confirms it; he uses Remus's wand with his left hand without difficulty -- and again, JKR makes it clear that it is the left.
So, it begins to appear that for all the trouble he takes to comply with V's wishes, he doesn't exactly give it his best. But why? Just disgruntled? Or is it this:
And damned if that isn't exactly what happens.
makesmewannadie. She knows why.The following is distilled from discussions with
chresimos and theatresm:Voldemort's plan for getting to Harry in GoF is completely ludicrous. There's no reason at all to make Harry jump through the hoops of the Tournament, when Barty-as-Moody could have just handed Harry a Portkey at any time. Any sane person can see that it's a Rube Goldberg device -- of course, Voldemort and Crouch Jr are insane, so it can be argued as in-character.
Peter, however, is not insane -- at least, not in that way. He's repeatedly "gone over the plan in [his] head" (GoF Ch.1), and can't make it add up. He's so worried about it that he tells Voldemort so to his face, continuing to press the issue even after V tells him to shut up about it, and threatens him with "the full extent of Lord Voldemort's wrath".
Despite his evident misgivings, Peter carries out his part of the plan. Or does he?
Peter's job during the whole Tournament business is to keep Crouch Sr under Imperius. But as we know, Crouch Sr escaped. According to Crouch Jr, Peter "neglected his duty" and "was not watchful enough" (GoF Ch.35).
Then we have the resurrection potion, for which Peter gives up his right hand. But what Voldemort may not realize is that Peter's right hand is missing a finger (JKR states this directly at the moment that he severs the hand), and it isn't even his dominant hand! From the fact that Peter cut off one of his right-hand fingers, we may guess that he is left-handed, and PoA confirms it; he uses Remus's wand with his left hand without difficulty -- and again, JKR makes it clear that it is the left.
So, it begins to appear that for all the trouble he takes to comply with V's wishes, he doesn't exactly give it his best. But why? Just disgruntled? Or is it this:
A slight pause followed -- and then Wormtail spoke, the words tumbling from him in a rush, as though he was forcing himself to say this before he lost his nerve.Riiiight. Very convincing. Voldemort is not impressed, and insists that it must be Harry, not just any enemy will do. Unable to sway him, Peter doesn't sabotage things outright -- probably values his life too much for that -- but I suspect part of him hopes that he was right from the start, and that the plan will fail. If he's lucky, Voldemort will shoot himself in the foot by following through with this plot that Peter knows full well is absurd, Harry will escape, and Peter will get what he wants without it being at all obvious to Voldemort that his motives are divided.
'It could be done without Harry Potter, my Lord.'
Another pause, more protracted, and then--
'Without Harry Potter?' breathed the second voice softly. 'I see...'
'My Lord, I do not say this out of concern for the boy!' said Wormtail, his voice rising squeakily. 'The boy is nothing to me, nothing at all! [...]'
(GoF Ch.1)
And damned if that isn't exactly what happens.
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Date: 2004-07-10 02:11 am (UTC)Peter is a damned-sight scarier than anybody else in the books, if you just stop and think. The likelihood of him dying is low, unless he has a run of absolutely horrible luck; almost all his plans succeed, and unless JKR pulls a fast one, Peter is going to sneak off to Patagonia at the end of Book 7 and live a nice long life away from all the troubles in the world.
Really, as soon as Lord Snake-face is vanquished once and for all, I suspect Peter will disappear. He's great at find a hole to crawl into and pull in after himself. Of course, Our Heroes will be rather upset that they can't exact (self-)righteous vengance upon him.
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Date: 2004-07-10 03:00 am (UTC)I'm re-reading GoF right now, and I've been having a tiny bit of Peter-love, if not just Peter-admiration the whole time. I mean, he's extremely good at surviving, I love that. But the way he does it all, out of the main picture, just skating along the sidelines -I don't know why, but that sort of sneakiness makes me grin.
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Date: 2004-07-10 10:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-10 10:12 am (UTC)Though I definitely think he'll be the last Marauder standing (I think he's going to kill Remus), I still suspect he might die before the series is out, simply because it would be such a huge loose end if he didn't. But I'd be personally pleased if he did scarper off somewhere. :)
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Date: 2004-07-10 11:25 am (UTC)I love how slippery he is, and how he is sort of a living embodiment of all that can be WRONG about Gryffindor ideals.
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Date: 2004-07-10 07:29 am (UTC)I totally can feel the Peterlove.
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Date: 2004-07-10 10:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-10 08:17 am (UTC)*feels the Peter-love*
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Date: 2004-07-10 10:42 am (UTC)Hm. Superman looks a lot like David Puddy, right there.
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Date: 2004-07-10 10:25 am (UTC)It makes me wonder why LV (who is supposedly one of the cleverest, most talented wizards ever) would go along with a nutso plan like this one, and the one in OotP, and I suddenly got an image of LV sitting in his chair w/Crouch Jr. on his knees, his head in LV's lap, and LV affectionately stroking his hair while Crouch is all, "And then I could..." "And then he could..." "And there'd be a portkey..." while LV nods indulgently. And maybe something similar happened with Bella in OotP. Maybe those 13 years alone flaked LV out more than he realized, and now that he's back, rather than listening to the sane and sensible advice of (traitors!) Peter and Lucius he allows himself to be swayed by the demented worship of Crouch Jr., Bellatrix and the other loyal (insane!) subjects who went to Azkaban rather than renounce him.
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Date: 2004-07-10 10:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-10 11:08 am (UTC)If only he had turned his love of drama to the stage... he could have been the Wizarding World's Cecil B. DeMille...
Really, you nailed Voldemort's problem on the head. He wants to be *seen* and acknowledge more than he wants to actually get the job done. I wonder if he was like this before he disincorporated, or did 13 years living in snake brains rot his mind?
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Date: 2004-07-10 12:58 pm (UTC)His other pre-1981 plan we know of is to go after Harry instead of Neville. But does he go after the half-blood like himself because he thinks it matches up with the Prophecy, or because he thinks it's more dramatic that way? Or both? Hard to say.
My opinion, these are personality traits he's always had, which spiralled out of control when he disincorporated. I don't see him as someone who appealed to the DEs' intelligence, but rather to their baser emotions -- that's the type of manipulator he is, and he's good at it. It certainly explains how he was able to command such irrational loyalty.
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Date: 2004-07-11 05:14 pm (UTC)(I'm suddenly reminding myself of those cell phone commercials. Hmmm.)
Also, I know Dumbledore makes the parallel about Voldemort going after the half-blood, but if I were a Dark Lord, I'd have killed them both. The only question would be (likely was), who gets it first?
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Date: 2004-07-15 06:54 pm (UTC)Maybe Voldemort would go after Neville next.
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Date: 2004-07-15 06:52 pm (UTC)Okay, firstly, the CoS-Basilisk plan wasn't Tom's. It was Salazar's. Tom just put it into action. And I'm betting that way back when there were alot fewer muggleborns in the school so it would be more plausible. And to his acting in CoS, yes, he does have his little dramatic flair, but he's 16. He's an angstridden teen who has not got much chance to vent - he's got to put out his perfect facade to the world.. no angsty venting for poor Riddle until he meets *drumroll* his nemesis. And he has his hated nemesis exactly where he wants him. That he's a bit.. well.. overly confident is justified if you think of it that way.
Hmm... mctabby just recced quite a few Riddle-Voldemort essays re: his reasoning- I haven't spent the time to read them (though I do have zee Riddlelove I'm more on a Blacklove thing now)...
Riddle, or Voldemort rather, is powerful. He is brilliant. He is talented. He is charismatic. He is the Heir of Slytherin. He is authoritative. And he knows it. As such his plans come across as those of your stereotypical evil mastermind - completely irrational and extreme.
I think what the DEs were attracted to varied. His principles, of course, were liked. His promise of power. His promise perhaps of hidden knowledge kind of power(dark arts). His promise of killing.
And I think the irrational loyalty stems for many different factors. The most important being fear. Then respect, naivity in some cases - I think that was an important factor in Barty Jr's case.
And to the Bellatrix matter -she's a Black. So far, Blacks are hellishly stubborn and set in their ways. She's been brought up by a pureblood-manic family, what can you expect? -shrugs- And about him trusting Bellatrix/Barty Jr more than Lucius/Peter.. how can one trust Peter?! And Lucius does everything *for his own good.* Sure, if there's some killing mudbloods in the process that's great - but if it involves him tarnishing his position - no. Slippery indeed. Bellatrix, one knows how they stand with her. Same with Crouch Jr. And also, that he trusts them rather than Lucius/Peter makes sense also in that they've been brainwashed. Lucius/Peter still have a degree of doubt/independence, which means that sometimes they can not be trusted in all matters, as Bellatrix/Crouch can.
If you look at it, Harry's got irrational loyalty from his friends too. :P
*steals graphic* Pass the Riddle♥ around. -nods- XD
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Date: 2004-07-16 05:57 pm (UTC)I think you've got it, here. Actually, Voldemort really doesn't have anyone whose advice he can reasonably take. Lucius and Peter have their own agendas -- Bella and Barty don't, but they often don't think straight either. It's a bit of a bind, if you're Voldie.
And you're right, I'm not much of a Riddlefan. I have to say my own mindset more closely resembles Peter's immediate pragmatism than Voldemort's grand-scale scheming. But it's always exciting to get new perspectives on characters you don't naturally gravitate to, as I certainly have in this thread. I should go check out all those essays
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Date: 2004-07-10 12:54 pm (UTC)This guy has a role to play, and HP fans ignore him at their own expense.
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Date: 2004-07-10 07:05 pm (UTC)I agree that V's GoF plot is ludicrous, and also that V is all about the grandiose, self-defeating gesture. But put those two traits together, and the Triwizard plot follows a sort of megalomaniac dictator's logic. Probably, Crouch Jr. could as you say have handed Harry a portkey at any time. But where's the public impact in that, the manipulation of crowd emotions, the devastating indictment of Dumbledore's competence? If V's rule is going to be preceded and heralded by a healthy sense of terror, then the Triwizard plot, at least as V conceived it, is a spectacular demonstration that no one is safe. (Sort of like choosing the Quidditch World Cup as the venue for a massive DE demonstration.) It builds from public curiosity about Harry's selection, to the increasing drama of his successes in the Tournament, to (ideally) the ultimate tableau of Harry lying dead in front of the crowds at the moment of their highest expectations and most worked-up emotional state. And it has to be Harry, from V's perspective, because of the whole arch-nemesis thing, and to decisively refute the Boy Who Lived mythology. From V's perspective, Peter's quibbles are for bureaucrats, not for statesmen.
This is, of course, the kind of lunacy that led Napoleonic cavalry and German tank squadrons into the Russian winter, but it seems like all mad world-conquerers need to re-learn that lesson for themselves. (And it's a good thing, too.)
What, then, to make of Peter's hesitation? I agree with you that he sees the foolishness of V's plan, and goes as far as he dares to talk him out of it. But if I'm reading you right, your points about Crouch's escape, and Peter's right hand, and Peter protesting too much about "the boy," suggest that he may have divided loyalties, that he may be actively undermining Voldemort. And that's an interesting suggestion, but I don't quite buy it.
The first reason is that there's a simpler explanation for each event. Peter could be troubled by V's fixation on Harry just on general principles; he knows Harry has some kind of special immunity to Voldemort, and he may fear precisely the unintended consequence of using Harry's blood that Dumbledore was cackling about, whatever that may turn out to be. As for the sacrifice of his weak and damaged hand -- well, which one would you rather give up? And I'm not sure he had much time to think about it. As for letting Crouch escape -- well, keeping Crouch under imperius throughout the tournament must have been one of the more existentially absurd ways to spend time, given Peter's general skepticism about the whole scheme and the obvious example of polyjuice. I can see his letting Crouch escape just from fatigue or inattention.
But the main objection is just a reading of Peter's character. I know I'm a guest in very Peter-friendly territory here. And I do agree that there is much more to Peter than meets the eye. But I guess I see him more as a highly resourceful survivor than as a pro-active shaper of events. Put him in a trap, he'll find a way out, even if he has to (literally) chew a limb off. Caught in a squeeze by his role in the first Potter conspiracy, he managed to find a way out while pinning the blame on someone else. But after escaping, he wanted nothing more for 12 years than an animal sense of peace and quiet and security. Once he knew that his identity had been discovered, and that Sirius and Dumbledore would be on his trail, he ran off to find the only entity that offered him even a chance of protection against these forces. And teaming up with a stronger personality, he put up with what he had to to feel safe. I agree that he plays his cards brilliantly when he's forced to, and has the nerve of a true Gryffindor. But maybe those very strengths are part of the tragedy and waste of Peter.
I would like to believe that Peter has a grand plan to redeem himself for the first injury he did to the Potters, by luring V to his own destruction. But I'm not sure V needs any help in this, or that Peter is motivated by anything but a desire to live for the next meal and the next warm bed.
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Date: 2004-07-10 08:55 pm (UTC)It's possible that his concern is simply that Voldemort will do himself an injury, as you suggest, but my assumption is that it has something to do with the life debt incurred in PoA, or with lingering conflicting feelings about James, or both. "The boy is nothing to me, nothing at all!" -- I just don't buy this from Peter. It doesn't sound sincere.
But after escaping, he wanted nothing more for 12 years than an animal sense of peace and quiet and security.
I partly agree with this. I do think he came to appreciate the simple animal life, but I also think Sirius makes a good point that Peter got a wizarding family to take him in, made sure he could keep an ear out for news. If all he wanted was peace and quiet, why schlep all the way to Albania to find Voldie? That's a pretty damn pro-active move, right there.
But where's the public impact in that, the manipulation of crowd emotions, the devastating indictment of Dumbledore's competence?
This is a good point, and one I hadn't thought of. Voldemort does know the value of a grand gesture.
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Date: 2004-07-11 12:57 pm (UTC)I agree with you that Peter's denials of caring for Harry sound insincere, but I'm inclined to doubt it has much to do with a desire for redemption or acknwledgement of the life debt. IMO it's not even protecting Voldemort that his is main objective -- it's his own hide. At the time of GoF Peter's been a front line witness to Harry persevering over Voldemort three times now -- as the instigating traitor when Harry was a baby, and then as Ron's trusted pet in the matters of the Philosopher's stone and the Chamber of Secrets.
Given that so many people on both sides of the conflict were out for his blood post PoA, I think Peter may have gone to resurrect Voldemort simply because it was really his best option for personal safety. But I think he also knows that (despite the apparent odds) Harry has a hell of a lot more chance of winning in the end than anyone's giving him credit for, and I wouldn't doubt that Peter's already spinning plans with that in mind.
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Date: 2004-07-10 08:09 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2004-07-11 12:26 pm (UTC)Voldemort is very weak at the beginning to GoF. I think that he needed the time to recover his strength. There's also an idea that the spell to restore him could maybe only be done at a certain time. If that happened to be in June, it would have made sense.
There's also Dumbledore's remark that Voldemort likes nothing better than to spread discord. If Barty Crouch Junoir had just given Harry a portkey, it would probably have been traced back to him. With the whole actions of the Tornament, discord is beautifully sowed. First there's the fact that Harry Potter was in the tornament in the first place. Then there's the "Who made the Cup a portkey? Where did it go?" fiasco. It's perfect for causing trouble. Just the sort of thing that Voldemort would like.
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Date: 2004-07-11 02:46 pm (UTC)And Harry didn't win, he and Cedric tied. It came damn close to Harry not getting to the Portkey at all. And Crouch Sr escaped. And Harry escaped.
If Barty Crouch Junoir had just given Harry a portkey, it would probably have been traced back to him.
But it was traced back to Crouch Jr, and he was arrested!
Voldemort has a problem with aiming too high. He'd set his sights on going straight from non-corporeality to omnipotent immortality in PS/SS, and you know how well THAT went. By GoF, he's lowered his goal to just getting his old body back, and chose to do it in such a complicated way that it's a miracle it happened at all, if you ask me.
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Date: 2004-07-11 05:08 pm (UTC)Before OotP I had really liked the idea that Voldemort's plan was set up so as to make a huge spectacle -- kidnap Harry from under Dumbledore's nose and send him back dead via the Portkey. Possibly also send an attack via Portkey. The problem with this, on reading OotP, is that he had been planning to come back without Dumbledore knowing. Making a big dramatic spectacle out of his resurrection does not seem the way to do this, overly complex plans notwithstanding.
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Date: 2004-07-12 06:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-15 06:15 pm (UTC)And he could have of course made Moody blame Harry's death on something in the maze. There must ahve been something which could have killed him.. or they could blame it on Krum! Yeah, that would work...
And how do you know he wanted to come back without Dumbledore knowing? My impression was that was just an assumption by the Order. Perhaps he *was* going to send an attack via Portkey back too but decided that with the whole huge Dumbledore/Ministry&Fudge fight going it was better to step back and see them total their own side before starting up :D
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Date: 2004-07-16 04:15 pm (UTC)