PoA 20

[pauraque_bk]

In Chapter 19, we had further discussion of whether Sirius would have died for Peter, some brilliant Remus analysis from marinarusalka, and there was a general consensus that Chapter 19 rocks hard.

*cuddles Chapter 19, CAPS and all*


PoA 20: The Dementors' Kiss

Note spelling. I'm afraid I've been guilty of writing "Dementor's Kiss".

This chapter is very short, just six pages. So don't think I'm slacking off. *g*

'I'll understand, of course, if you want to stay with your aunt and uncle,' said Sirius. (277)

How does he know Harry lives with his aunt and uncle?

Also, starting in this chapter, he's called "Sirius" in narration instead of "Black" -- Harry's accepted him as a person and a friend. Interestingly, Remus is still "Lupin" after he quits his job. And after PoA, "Pettigrew" becomes "Wormtail" in narration, showing how he's dehumanized in Harry's mind.

Silently they tramped through the grounds, the castle lights growing slowly larger. [...] And then --
A cloud shifted. There were suddenly dim shadows on the ground. Their party was bathed in moonlight. (278)

At which point, Lupin transforms. Of course, this does not make sense, though I can't say it stopped me on first reading. If it were actually full moonlight that triggers the transformation, lycanthropy wouldn't be much of a handicap: you could just spend those nights hiding in a windowless room. Obviously, that's not the way lycanthropy is presented at any other point in the book.

The best explanation I've ever heard for this is that in astronomical terms, the moon's exact full alignment begins at a particular moment, and that moment happened to be just when the clouds shifted. The discussion was at prillalar's LJ, here.

Pettigrew had dived for Lupin's dropped wand. Ron, unsteady on his bandaged leg, fell. There was a bang, a burst of light -- and Ron lay motionless on the ground. Another bang -- Crookshanks flew into the air and back to the earth in a heap.
'Expelliarmus!' Harry yelled[...] (279)

As usual, Peter thinks fast in a crisis. If he's going to transform, he has to incapacitate Crookshanks first, but before he does that, he stuns the closest person to him (Ron, still chained to his right hand) to give himself a second, then stuns the cat, and only then does Harry get it together to disarm him, at which point he transforms -- and Harry's not likely to catch a rat in the dark. And remember, Peter heard Snape say Lupin forgot his potion, so as they were walking across the grounds, he may have been planning ahead to when Lupin would transform. If so, he's the only one who thought of it.

Any way you look at it, Peter = capable and not stupid.

It's interesting that he only stuns Crookshanks. I wouldn't expect him to kill Ron -- Ron's been his only friend for years, and the last thing Peter needs is another murder on his rap sheet. But why spare the cat? Perhaps killing him would just waste time and energy, in Peter's mind.

Also, this is another indication that Peter is left-handed, as aristide pointed out. Lupin was chained to his left side (276), so when he lunges for the wand, it's with his left hand -- his wand hand, we assume, since there's no sign of difficulty in using it.

... and in the distance, [Harry] heard the familiar screaming ... expecto patronum ... (281)

On re-reading, suggests a different familiar voice in the distance (his own), casting the Patronus, which appears a moment later. Good one, JKR.


You know, despite the logical flaws (Remus's transformation, the fact that Sirius would obviously not be a good parent to anyone at this stage), this is a strangely affecting section. The emotions ring powerfully true. I don't share Harry's wish to live with Sirius, but I feel it.


Past re-read posts are here.

Comments

[maidenjedi]

Harry's very sudden and very deep attachment to Sirius is startling at this point. I've never gotten why he switched so completely so soon. I would think he'd at least be wary of Sirius, and that the stronger attachment might be to Remus. But JKR makes it a point to draw Remus as a detached figure in Harry's life (by always referring to him as Lupin, or as Professor Lupin, as you point out), and Sirius as a father-like figure. Perhaps she was planning his death sooner than we'd all imagined.

Remus's transformation bugs me more than I can possibly express. It's like when vampires eat food on Buffy the Vampire Slayer or when they walk in sunlight in Blade. ILLOGICAL. Sigh.

But, that said, I do think you're right about Peter. This chapter, in fact, may just show his greatest cunning yet. His escape is damned near flawless, and granted there are circumstances that allow it to be so, but Peter is fully aware of them, and the others are not.

[glitterdemon.livejournal.com]

Harry's very sudden and very deep attachment to Sirius is startling at this point. I've never gotten why he switched so completely so soon.

What I think is more... not necessarily startling, but still deep while remaining not entirely logical, is Harry's attachment to James, whom he's never even known. And I think this might stem from that. Having idealized James in his mind, in missing James when he's never known him, it makes sense that Harry would so immediately attach himself to a man who showed such loyalty (there's that theme again!) to his father. Remus's loyalty isn't any less, but Sirius lends his passion to it in that scene, and that's something a young teenager is more likely to pick up on.

But JKR makes it a point to draw Remus as a detached figure in Harry's life (by always referring to him as Lupin, or as Professor Lupin, as you point out), and Sirius as a father-like figure.

A friend of mine said after reading OotP that one of the main reasons (in a literary sense) he saw for Sirius's death was that Harry had Remus and Sirius both as father-figures, and therefore it wasn't necessary to keep them both in the equation. For the reasons you've stated -- the distance that Harry seems to keep from 'Lupin' -- I don't especially agree with this. But it does make me wonder if Harry will perhaps become closer to Remus in the next books. It does actually feel a bit contrived on Rowling's part; before Sirius, Remus was slowly coming to hold a more personal position in Harry's life. It's always a little jarring for me to read the name 'Lupin' in OotP, especially when used right beside 'Sirius' because there's just not indication enough for me that Harry feels that much more formally towards his ex-professor than he does to Sirius. Anyway, I do think it would be an interesting direction for her to go in, especially since a good part of Sirius's relationship to Harry was based on Sirius's relationship to his parents, and their attachment often seemed more circumstantial than based on a true rapport between the two, which Harry and Remus seemed to have more of. Remus also never let his relationship to James/Lily serve as a conduit for developing a closer relationship to Harry. So while Sirius may have 'interrupted' that (for lack of a better word; I'm certainly not implying he was butting in where he wasn't wanted or even needed; I think he served an important purpose in Harry's life by being someone so true to James), it's possible that Harry and Remus will pick up where they left off and become closer. Spurned on, of course, by Sirius's own death.

[muridae-x.livejournal.com]

A friend of mine said after reading OotP that one of the main reasons (in a literary sense) he saw for Sirius's death was that Harry had Remus and Sirius both as father-figures, and therefore it wasn't necessary to keep them both in the equation.

I felt that even before reading OotP, which is why unspoiled little me had the two of them as joint favourites for being the character to die. On the whole I thought Sirius the more likely of the pair, just because Harry had attached himself so firmly to him emotionally... but I saw the redundancy, and I liked Remus best, so I was on tenterhooks throughout. For all that Sirius's death is touching and tragic, because he's spent so very much of his adult life either a physical or mental prisoner, I confess that my first reaction to it was one of profound relief that it wasn't Remus.

I will be very interested to see if Harry latches onto Remus, the one remaining accessible friend of his parents, in the final two books and gets to know him better. Remus is very much the counterpoint to the wild, rash, impulsive and flamboyant Sirius, and learning to appreciate a quieter, calmer and more cautious character might well be a necessary part of Harry's personal development if he's now got over that awkward angry stage a little.

This, of course, is more reflection on OotP than on PoA. But looking back, it intrigues me to see just how much of the character of both Sirius and Remus is foreshadowed in the things that we learn about them at this point. In PoA they're given a distance - as criminal lurking in the background, and as professor/authority figure - that they don't have in the later books where they're adult members of the same circle, but there's still enough information there for a number of us to have speculated on what the two's character flaws might turn out to be, before the release of OotP... and to have got it right.

[pauraque]

What I think is more... not necessarily startling, but still deep while remaining not entirely logical, is Harry's attachment to James, whom he's never even known. And I think this might stem from that. Having idealized James in his mind, in missing James when he's never known him, it makes sense that Harry would so immediately attach himself to a man who showed such loyalty (there's that theme again!) to his father.

I think you've got it exactly -- as always, it's about James.

It's remarkable, really... this hold James has over so many of the major characters (Harry, Sirius, Snape, Dumbledore, Peter), given that in terms of the central plot, James didn't *do* anything. It was Lily's sacrifice that saved Harry and half-destroyed Voldemort. The only important thing James ever really did was save Snape's life, but he was central before that. I don't know quite what to make of it.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

It's remarkable, really... this hold James has over so many of the major characters (Harry, Sirius, Snape, Dumbledore, Peter), given that in terms of the central plot, James didn't *do* anything.

I know. It's bizarre, and sometimes it makes me want to rattle the characters until they notice that it was *Lily* who saved Harry (or their heads come off, whatever happens first).

Frankly, it was Lily who defeated Voldemort, Harry just got the credit.

Of course, I find it really dubious that everyone seems to be encouraging Harry to identify with his father. Is the Order trying to mold Harry into James or what? No wonder Sirius was confused about who Harry was. And why does *no one* talk to Harry about his mother, other than Petunia, who isn't going to say complimentary things anyway.

[maidenjedi]

Oh, and....

Sirius knows from the beginning of the book that Harry's at the Dursley's. He goes there to see Harry before going to Hogwarts, and Harry sees him as the Grim. As to how he'd know, Hagrid told Sirius that he was on Dumbledore's orders to take baby Harry to the Dursley's (I think he told him that much). Even if not, it's logical - Sirius would know that Petunia is Harry's only living relative.

[spug.livejournal.com]

Hagrid turned up at the Potters' house and rescued Harry from the ruins, then Sirius turned up and gave him his bike. Hagrid knew he was to take Harry to the Dursleys already, as he obviously flew right from Godric's Hollow to the Dursleys, where he met Dumbledore and McGonagall (why was she there, anyway, she wasn't a member of the Order?). I presume Hagrid told Sirius where he was going, and Sirius then decided to give him the bike to ensure Harry got a safe journey. I doubt Sirius would just give Hagrid the bike in case he needed it, and without ensuring his godson would be in a safe place.

[spug.livejournal.com]

Okay, perhaps not. I did not take into account that a day passed between the Potters were killed and Harry was placed on the Dursleys' doorstep (reference (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/timelines/timeline_potters2.html#So)). So perhaps Hagrid didn't tell Sirius where he was going... But he might still have done.

[simmysim.livejournal.com]

i've always thought -- and i have no idea why i've thought it in such detail, as i've never been particularly interested in werewolves or lycanthropy -- that, the transformation is generally a very gradual thing. windowless room = long, drawn out, painful transformation, but bathing in direct moonlight is like sticking a fork in an outlet.

and harry's sudden attachment to sirius just made me nervous. maybe harry felt guilty for thinking such horrible things about him, and was subconsciously overcompensating?

[pauraque]

windowless room = long, drawn out, painful transformation, but bathing in direct moonlight is like sticking a fork in an outlet.

That's a possibility. I still think JKR's editor should have asked!

[-sophieg.livejournal.com]

If you compare Sirius to the Dursleys then maybe living with him doesn't sound so bad. Harry can quite easily forget that Sirius is a little unhinged (breaking into the tower with a knife, desperately trying to kill Peter, hurting Ron) if it means an escape from the people he's been living with all his life.

The constant abuse, both as insults from his aunt and uncle, and punches from his cousin, would make him pretty desperate to get away.

Although Sirius isn't completely sane, he is portrayed as being exceptionally loyal to James (and therefore Harry) something that is definitely seen as a good thing.

[spug.livejournal.com]

The last point you make sounds good. Harry probably misses having one or more parent figures in his life, and when he realizes Sirius is innocent he immediately clings to him as if he were his second father (which, in essence, he is).

[asphodeline.livejournal.com]

I think I'm right in saying too that Harry had spent some time looking at the photos he has of his parents and Sirius together - once he made the connection with their Best Man and Sirius Black. I felt his disappointment that one of the few people close to his parents had turned out to be this killer and probably suddenly realsing that he wasn't what he was said to be made him latch onto him as he would have done had he not been in Azkaban.
I think I'm trying to say he had almost been waiting for an excuse to really like him becasue his parents had.

[pauraque]

You're right. He already had the idea of his father's best friend established in his mind, long before he met Sirius.

Look, I'm trying to be intelligent again.

[aristide.livejournal.com]

I'm very close to a teacher myself, she's helpful to me in ways not even my family has, yet I still refer to her by her last name.
It's out of respect.
That can possibly be why Harry refers to him that way, after all Lupin at this point is a teacher first, and a friend of the family second. Referring to him as Remus at this point and even at a later point, would be like referring to Dumbledore as Albus or even any other of the teachers in the same manner.

Re: Look, I'm trying to be intelligent again.

[pauraque]

Yes, I think you've got a point there.

You also have a South Park slash icon. ♥

Re: Look, I'm trying to be intelligent again.

[aristide.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes I do. I picked it up after a bit of nostalgia over my old fandom days. Lack of time to watch the show tends to lead to lack of interest after awhile, ya?

However, I’ve probably forgotten to credit it like a mindless little fuck that I am. I’ll get around to fixing that.

Re: Look, I'm trying to be intelligent again.

[pauraque]

I can't remember the artist either, but I recognized it from the front page of the SPSA.

[nakedcelt.livejournal.com]

Um... not wanting to sound impatient or anything but... aren't there still some chapters to go? It's been a few days now and I have been enjoying the read-through so far...

[pauraque]

Yes, there are two chapters left. Unfortunately, I have a finite amount of time to spend on fandom stuff, and the last couple of days I spent it on fiction, as you can see from my last entries. You can expect Chapter 21 this evening.