PS 8

[pauraque_bk]

In Chapter 7, neotoma asked whether Snape has ever awarded points -- I can't say I know. (She also notes that there might be fewer Squibs than Muggleborns because fewer Squibs survive, after their relatives try to force magic out of them...!)

Meanwhile, the discussion on Chapter 6 has busted the 100-comment mark. Don't miss nullabona's legal thoughts on who might stand to inherit Sirius's estate. Though it occurs to me, also, that Sirius might not technically have ever been declared dead!


PS 8: The Potions Master

Harry and Ron managed to get on the wrong side of [Filch] on their very first morning. Filch found them trying to force their way through a door which unluckily turned out to be the entrance to the out-of-bounds corridor on the third floor. He wouldn't believe they were lost, was sure they were trying to break into it on purpose and was threatening to lock them in the dungeons when they were rescued by Professor Quirrell, who was passing. (99)

Any significance to the fact that it's Quirrell who bails them out? Is he being careful to keep an eye on this door, or does he not know the Stone's in there yet?

[Mrs Norris] patrolled the corridors alone. Break a rule in front of her, put just one toe out of line, and she'd whisk off for Filch, who'd appear, wheezing, two seconds later. (99)

I prefer to think that Mrs Norris is just a regular cat -- I like the idea of the two "normals" teaming up against the magical majority.

'Ah, yes,' [Snape] said softly, 'Harry Potter. Our new -- celebrity.' (101)

I think we're in a much better position, post-OotP, to analyze what happens in this scene. Although Snape's already given Harry a dirty look once, Harry walks in more or less blind. Snape, meanwhile, walks in essentially expecting a confrontation with James Potter. He supposes Harry will be obsessed with his status, as James was. He also assumes he deliberately made Neville look bad to make himself look good -- as one can easily imagine James having done to Peter.

James wasn't just a jock, he was a *smart* jock. Magic came easily to him, whereas Snape had to work hard for whatever scholastic success he acheived. Now Snape's an academic by profession, and jumps to rub it in Harry's face.

From Harry's perspective, the sudden aggression is bewildering. But it's perfectly consistent, as long as you know that Snape sees Harry as James. (Not *right*, mind you, but consistent.)

'You are here to learn the subtle science and exact art of potion-making [...] As there is little foolish wand-waving here, many of you will hardly believe this is magic. I don't expect you will really understand the beauty of the softly wimmering cauldron with its shimmering fumes, the delicate power of liquids that creep through human veins, bewitching the mind, ensnaring the senses ... I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death -- if you aren't as big a bunch of dunderheads as I usually have to teach.' (102)

Snape never goes on a poetic flight of fancy like this at any other time in the books, and I think this one abberrant speech tends to be given undue weight by fans.

The one thing I do like about this passage is its defensiveness. No one has suggested that potions aren't real magic, yet Snape jumps to defend himself from that criticism.

'Potter!' said Snape suddenly. 'What would I get if I added powdered root of asphodel to an infusion of wormwood?' (102)

I believe it was lizbee who introduced me to the idea of this line (the first Snape addresses directly to Harry) as a hint at Snape/Lily. Asphodel is related to the lily, and wormwood is notable as a bitter plant. Snape suggests putting them together. I like it. (Mind, I don't think *Snape* is trying to tell Harry he loved Lily -- if anything, it'd be a message from JKR to the reader.)

There's also an article at MuggleNet analyzing this as indicating a connection between Lily and Peter.

[Snape] swept around in his long black cloak [...] criticising almost everyone except Malfoy, whom he seemd to like. He was just telling everyone to look at the perfect way Malfoy had stewed his horned slugs[...] (103)

I'm struck by how similar Snape's first class is to McGonagall's, described just a few paragraphs previously. Snape and McGonagall are both strict; neither are teachers to be messed with, in Harry's opinion. Harry notes that they share the ability to keep a class quiet without effort. They both begin their first class with a speech essentially warning the kids that the subject at hand is complicated and dangerous, and to behave. They both reserve praise for a student Harry dislikes: Snape likes the way Malfoy stews his slugs (and who's to say he didn't do it perfectly?); McGonagall shows the class how well Hermione turned her match to a needle, giving her a "rare smile".

Though admittedly McGonagall doesn't single Harry out to be picked on, their similarities seem more notable than their differences at this early stage. Yet, Harry seems to respect McGonagall straight away.

While there's probably some house bias involved, I think what Harry may be responding to is that McGonagall is successful as an *authority figure* -- whereas Snape has a hard time placing himself firmly above his students. He instead approaches them as peers to be challenged (as he does with Harry, equating him with his old school foe), so when he lays down the law, it's interpreted not as "strictness" within the rules of teacher-student relations, but as ad hominem cruelty.

Neville had somehow managed to melt Seamus's cauldron into a twisted blob and their potion was seeping across the stone floor[...]

'Idiot boy!' snarled Snape[...] (103)

Snape's anger isn't hard to understand. You're trying to teach 11-year-olds to work with dangerous chemicals, and one spills them all over the floor.

But after this accident, Snape continues to target Neville for special criticism. It's really quite predatory: he sees weakness, and exploits it. It's also my reading that Snape is bothered by Neville because they're too much alike... they both fear humiliation above all else.

Harry and Ron were delighted to hear Hagrid call Filch 'that old git'.

'An' as fer that cat, Mrs Norris, I'd like ter introduce her to Fang some time. D'yeh know, every time I go up ter the school, she follows me everywhere? Can't get rid of her -- Filch puts her up to it.' (105)

I'd entirely forgotten this. What should Filch have against Hagrid?


Past re-read posts are here.

Comments

[fluffers.livejournal.com]

Snape, meanwhile, walks in essentially expecting a confrontation with James Potter.

Exactly. It's funny, when I re-read the books over this winter break, I was struck when Molly (I think) cries out in OotP: "He's not James, Sirius!...Sometimes the way you talk about him, it's as though you think you've got your best friend back!" p.89 US. The first thought that came to my head was "Huh. Something Snape and Sirius have in common."

I love to look at Snape's behavior toward Harry! It's totally clear from the second Snape sees Harry that he must be just like James. It's an interesting conclusion to jump to. If behavior is largely a product of environment, well, clearly Snape knows Harry didn't grow up with James, so didn't soak up his attitude that way. So does Snape believe that behavior is an inherited trait? But we've seen a glimpse of the kind of home Snape grew up in...does that say something about the way he sees himself, or maybe he's afraid he won't be able to stop from turning into that?

Or possibly he assumes Harry's just been treated like the little champion his whole life, a pretty grand assumption to make about someone else. This is all much clearer in my head. Clearly I shouldn't be th inking this late.

[pauraque]

Although a number of characters occasionally fall into the Harry=James mode of thinking, it's a severe hang-up for three: Snape, Sirius, and Peter. In the Shrieking Shack, Peter expects Harry to act like James -- or rather, like Peter's idealized vision of James -- and spare Peter's life. "You look just like James, James would have spared me" and so on.

It's that idealization that's the thing. Peter wants Harry to be his hero, Sirius wants Harry to be his best friend, Snape wants Harry to be his old enemy. Not only are they not acknowledging Harry's individuality, they're not even acknowledging the full complexity of what _James's_ personality was -- just what they want/need him to be.

What is it about James that inspires this in people? It's pretty amazing to me.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

Re: neotoma's question about Snape and points - the answer is no; we never see Snape award anybody points in canon, regardless of House.

The points list: http://www.livejournal.com/users/bethbethbeth/126193.html

[pauraque]

Yay that! Thank you.

[mandrill.livejournal.com]

I've wondered if perhaps one of the reasons that Snape singles out Neville for "special treatment" might be because Mr. and Mrs. Longbottom might have had something to do with pursuing and/or arresting Snape during the Death Eater round-up in the early 1980s.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

lizbee used that idea in her story Girl Most Likely.

I think it's quite a possiblity, since Snape passses his reactions to the fathers down to the sons at least twice (James-Harry, Lucius-Draco) in the books.

[stellahobbit.livejournal.com]

What should Filch have against Hagrid?

Jealousy, perhaps? Both Filch and Hagrid are essentially without magic; Filch because he's a squib and Hagrid because he's not allowed to use any. Both are in 'caretaker' positions in the school so should be equal in status, yet Filch probably sees Hagrid being treated special by Dumbledore (and may have an inkling about the Order of the Phoenix?)

It's also my reading that Snape is bothered by Neville because they're too much alike... they both fear humiliation above all else.

In my decidedly pro-Snape way, I'm hoping he's doing this solely to toughen Neville up. No doubt Snape is aware of Neville's parents and what they suffered, and maybe he even knows there could be some connection re Harry/Neville/born at the end of July.

[pauraque]

I'm not a fan of the "toughening him up" reading, but I will buy that it may have something to do with the prophecy. Snape may have wanted Neville to be the child of the prophecy so that he wouldn't have to cope with James's son being Important.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Snape, meanwhile, walks in essentially expecting a confrontation with James Potter.

Which is not at all helped by the fact that Harry looks like his dad, right down to the messed-up hair. Unfortunately for Harry, it's natural for him, but Snape is going to think he's doing it deliberately just as James did.

their similarities seem more notable than their differences at this early stage.

McGonagall is noticeably harsh to Neville in GoF, so while she doesn't go after him as relentlessly as Snape does, she's not above dressing him down in front of the other students either.

He instead approaches them as peers to be challenged

Bloodcult-of-Freud picked up in this her fanfic, and I think it's really key to Snape. He *doesn't* see the students as children, or more precisely, he doesn't see *himself* as different from them -- which leads to his appallingly immature behavior, especially when it comes to rivals for Dumbledore's attention.

It's really quite predatory: he sees weakness, and exploits it.

I also think this mindset is quite common in the Wizarding World. There is a 'step or be stepped on' mentality that seems endemic, and is another point that makes me wonder whether charity is considered a virtue among wizards (and how far various religions got into the culture, because it seems to lack the ideals of such).

What should Filch have against Hagrid?

Giant blood, the fact that Hagrid *can* do magic, or maybe just Hagrid's love of monsters? There is a host of possibilities.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

McGonagall is noticeably harsh to Neville in GoF

And in PoA, also...

Plus she and Snape are directly compared in OotP, when it comes to their bias for their own houses ("the Heads of House of the competing teams, though they attempted to disguise it under a decent pretence of sportsmanship, were determined to see their own side victorious" and "Snape was no less obviously partisan".)

[starpaint.livejournal.com]

I love the topic of Snape and Neville. Absolutely love it. I think you're right about Snape as a predator; he snaps out at his targets and digs low. Sort of like what donnaimmaculata said about Sirius, who manipulates Harry through his adoration of James. The difference being that Snape really doesn't have a goal in calling Hermione a stuck-up know-it-all, or badgering Neville into being even more incompetent than he was. He's going after them because he doesn't like them and because he can. He's a very bitter man.

My other theory - which sounds a lot weaker in comparison - is that Snape dislikes Neville because he doesn't fit the role of an arrogant Gryffindor. He doesn't really fit the prejudice, and Snape likes him less for that. Something like an incompetent tagging along with a pack of idiots. Something like he thought of Pettigrew. And another reminder of the people he hates.

[pauraque]

What's interesting about Neville is that he _doesn't_ tag along with the Trio, after this book -- we don't really know what he does with his time. But of course, Snape sees what he wants to see.

Speculation on the acceptance of Snape's behavior

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

I wonder if there might be some misunderstanding going on with regard to Snape's treatment of Harry. (And Neville, too--I'm convinced that a good part of Snape's viciousness to Neville is bleed-off frustration from having Harry in the classroom. If Neville were a Hufflepuff, or in a different year than Harry, I think he probably wouldn't have gotten much worse from Snape than sneers and the occasional mocking comment.)

Everybody in Harry's Potions class *knows* Snape is nasty and biased, since they've all been warned, so they assume Snape's behavior is typical and normal and they don't think to complain. Or when they do complain, it's not specific enough to be taken seriously. ("Snape was so nasty today!" "Oh yeah, Snape's always nasty.") However, what Dumbledore, McGonagall, the older Weasley boys, etc. consider 'nasty and biased' could very well be something a lot more benign than what Snape is doing to and around Harry.

I'm thinking that Dumbledore and McGonagall assume Snape isn't crossing some line, and if he were they would know because kids would complain. And ordinarily Snape *does* stay behind that line, but around Harry he just can't control himself (some wounds are too deep to heal) and he crosses it, repeatedly. But the kids in Harry's class don't know where the line is supposed to be, or even that it exists, but they *do* know that Snape's biased, nasty behavior is accepted at the school. To use a very drastic example, it's like a child being told to shut up and accept the kisses and cheek-pinching of family members and not realizing that instruction does not extend to letting Uncle Bob stick his hand up her dress.

Re: Speculation on the acceptance of Snape's behavior

[pauraque]

It seems that physical punishments have only recently gone out of style (based on what Filch says) -- the idea that children should be accorded respect may be a new one for wizarding culture. If that's so, I don't think it's a surprise that Snape's behavior is accepted.

Nonetheless, I think your assessment of the way kids think of a cruel teacher is accurate. When I was in fourth grade, I had a very verbally abusive teacher, but it was just as you say: everyone knew she was horrible, so when she acted horribly, it occurred to no one to seriously complain.

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Excellent insight as to Snape vs. McGonagall's way of managing a classroom:

whereas Snape has a hard time placing himself firmly above his students. He instead approaches them as peers to be challenged (as he does with Harry, equating him with his old school foe), so when he lays down the law, it's interpreted not as "strictness" within the rules of teacher-student relations, but as ad hominem cruelty.

I'd never quite thought of it that way, but it fits the sense we have that Snape (like Sirius) has never entirely grown up. With Sirius it's because he's been stuck in Azkaban since he was little more than a teenager, and with Snape it's because he's stuck at Hogwarts. How can he get over the things that happened to him as a boy when he walks by the places they happened every day - when the teachers in charge of him then are still marginally in charge of him now? No wonder he comes off as having the emotional maturity of a teenager sometimes, defencive of what authority he's honestly earned for himself.

I'd entirely forgotten this. What should Filch have against Hagrid?

Hee - I've always rather liked this rivalry, especially the fact that affable Hagrid finally hates someone. It could be the usual manor-house take on below-stairs rivalry. Hagrid is in charge of outdoors, Filch in charge of indoors, and there's bound to be a few in-betweens that they've clashed on. Maybe Filch had the daring to insult Albus Dumbledore in front of Hagrid? As well, I can see Filch seriously resenting Hagrid for having magic despite being expelled at such a young age. And they likely have a lot of history together. Assuming that Filch started working at Hogwarts as an apprentice to Apollyon Pringle as an older teenager, it would have been around the time that Hagrid was still apprenticed to the groundskeeper.

...*will not write young!Filch/Hagrid*

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

Yes, and like Sirius, there was very little in-between time. There were only a few years to 'grow up' and those were in the insanely stressful period of war, almost certainly more so for Snape, who was a Death Eater and then a spy. And then when he *returns* to school, it's not just that he still *feels* like a youth but he *is* still a youth. It wouldn't have been in his head that the students challenge his authority, that the teachers treat him like a student; it would have been fact. And that first year - even if he hadn't been plagued by so much bitterness, there would have been students who remembered him, maybe not as Snivellus, but definitely as a student. An extremely strict, intimidating persona was probably the only option within the limits of his personality for keeping them all in line. A lot of his Death Eater skills, you could say. :}

But then, I do also think that the Snape we see who has to deal with Harry Potter all the time is significantly more stressed out than Snape in a non-Harry year. Someone mentioned it with regard to Neville. While I do think that he attacks Neville for defects he sees in his own personity, I don't think he would have been so defensive without a Potter around to dredge up all his insecurities.

[circe-tigana.livejournal.com]

It's also my reading that Snape is bothered by Neville because they're too much alike... they both fear humiliation above all else.


Interesting ... but I'm not certain I agree. Is it humiliation they fear, or the consequences of failure? Neville seems (to me) to be more afraid of letting the other Gryffindors down (Ie: losing them points) than he is of being humiliated and/or embarrassed by his mistakes.

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

I think perhaps it's more the fact that Neville *can* be intimidated. It's something Snape absolutely hates in himself - he hates feelings of helplessness and fear. That's how he felt around his father's violence and it's the weakness the marauders caught him in. So with Neville it could be seen as trying to toughen him up, but it's not remotely effective, so really Snape's just punishing the signs of weakness he can't allow himself or anyone.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

I prefer to think that Mrs Norris is just a regular cat

Maybe she belonged to the former caretaker and Filch inherited her? Perhaps Pringle knew Filch was a squib and Mrs. Norris had a strong dislike for the students in general (I think Rowling is more of a dog person than a cat person, since the cats in HP are either prickly and enigmatic (Crookshanks), severe (Minerva-as-tabby) or sly and liable to get you into trouble (Mrs. Norris). Oh wait, there's also Figg and her cats.

He supposes Harry will be obsessed with his status, as James was.

I don't know, I see Snape as smarter than this. He's seen him in the Great Hall, seen how he seems to shrink from the limelight and instead seeks the shelter of a likewise mousy boy in Ron Weasley. If he really was obsessed with his status, he'd be introducing himself as "Yeah, I'm Harry Potter, the Harry Potter" and eating it all up with a silver spoon. In a way, I wonder if Snape is almost surprised that Harry couldn't be any more different than James.

I've never seen the Snape/McGonagall teaching similarities viewpoint before, I like it! Part of me wonders if Harry takes to McGonagall with a certain sense of awe because she is matronly and even though her smiles are rare, she does smile. Harry hasn't been around any females who have given him any source of kindness, unless you cound Mrs. Figg by default.

You're trying to teach 11-year-olds to work with dangerous chemicals, and one spills them all over the floor.

K had to teach archery to 11-year-olds. He did a lot of "okay, let's nonoNONONO POINT IT THE OTHER WAY!!!!11" ;)

It's also my reading that Snape is bothered by Neville because they're too much alike... they both fear humiliation above all else.

For awhile, I was obsessed with the thought that Snape knew Frank Longbottom and Frank was a much kinder soul than James. Not necessarily that they got along, but perhaps Frank was an example to Snape that not all Gryffindors were cut from the same mold. Snape's treatment of Neville is that he expected better from Frank's son, that he's a constant reminder that it should be Frank who should be alive and well.

[pauraque]

Oh wait, there's also Figg and her cats.

I decided not to cite it because I didn't have anything notable to say, but in an earlier chapter, Harry notes that he disliked Mrs Figg because she made him look at photos of every cat she'd ever owned. I agree that JKR's a dog person!

I don't know, I see Snape as smarter than this.

It's not about intelligence. I'm not saying he's too dumb to see Harry for who he is, but that he's too stubborn and emotionally immature to see it. He _wants_ Harry to be like James, he _wants_ to hate him.

There are a couple of reasons for this. One thing he gets out of it is revenge -- he gets to mistreat James vicariously through Harry. Snape is also clearly hung up on the fact that James saved his life. James is dead, so the debt can't be repaid... except to Harry. So Snape needs Harry to be somehow equivalent to James, or else he'll carry that debt forever.

Snape is a person whose emotions overrule his logic. As long as he has sufficient emotional cause to keep seeing Harry as James, he'll keep it up, no matter what evidence is presented to the contrary.

[lycoris.livejournal.com]

I think Quirrell is definietely scoping out the door. It makes it more interesting that way. Besides, he must know the stone is there - Voldemort is already in his head and Quirrell helped protect the stone.

He also assumes he deliberately made Neville look bad to make himself look good --

Now that's very interesting. I never thought of it that way. (the idea that Snape genuinely thought Harry had tried to make Neville look bad) I always assumed that Snape was annoyed and took it out on Harry because Harry was there and it was convient. Interesting.

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

I'm a fan of the theory that there's something more to the background between Snape and Neville. The boggart is very hard for me to ignore. Everyone else has monsters or animals of common phobias or severed body parts. Except Hermione, who also has a teacher, but I think (if she's telling the truth) that in her case it's simply the physical manifestation of "failure," which is her real fear.

Using that theory, it's easy to imagine scenarios that would make Neville fear Snape above all else, but more difficult to come up with anything that explains why Snape would be predisposed to a dislike of Neville. Still, there could be something there. Or it may just be the cauldron-melting thing (which Neville probably does because he's nervous since he's so afraid of Snape).

[pauraque]

One possibility is that Neville's heard rumors that Snape was a DE (overheard his relatives talking or the like), and the fear stems from mentally associating Snape with what happened to his parents.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

While there's probably some house bias involved, I think what Harry may be responding to is that McGonagall is successful as an *authority figure* -- whereas Snape has a hard time placing himself firmly above his students.

It makes me wonder, particularly since there's hints in the series that Snape is an effective teacher and he doesn't seem to be that much of a target of ridicule by the whole school, if we should think he's slightly different in this class than in any other because of Harry. I don't think he's remarkably different in other classes, but it's possible he doesn't usually have any reason to personally insult one student. I mean, I do think he has a habit of treating *any* kid as an equal when they get on his nerves and snapping at them with name-calling or something inappropriate, but that side of him might not usually be so constantly on-display.

Or really, because of Harry and possibly Draco, if Snape was really once Lucius' lapdog. This rarely comes up but it's got to be kind of a coincidence that on the same day Snape's faced with James Jr. he's possibly also got a junior version of his former friend in class. Not to mention Neville, if he sees himself in him at all. Wow, this class is just old home week for Snape!

Though I do think that Draco is perfectly competent and may very well have stewed his slugs well, because it's hard for me to believe Snape having too much patience with a bad student or showing the kids the wrong way to do something.

It's also my reading that Snape is bothered by Neville because they're too much alike... they both fear humiliation above all else.

I wonder if what bothers Snape so much about Neville isn't that Neville fears humiliation so much as lives in it. Neville seems to actually be okay with humiliation. He might have a bigger fear of being trusted and failing in that trust--as a known failure nobody counts on him. He never seems to go out of his way to avoid humiliation and when he gets it he doesn't complain; when he makes conversation he often tells people about being humiliated. I get the feeling what Snape hates about Neville is the way he sits there and is humiliated and acts like that's just his due...but maybe that's part of Neville covering for himself.

But if you think of Snape being humiliated and HATING IT and always always trying to have dignity, somebody like Neville who says, "I melted the cauldron. Yeah, I really am clumsy and stupid. My gran tells me all the time. Once I tripped over my own foot and landed in a frog pond. ::sigh:: I'm sorry for messing up your class with my stupidity, sir. You're right, sir, I am stupid," might just drive him crazy.

With Neville I tend to think the reason Snape frightens him so much is the way he goes after just that. I mean, Neville's friendly sharing of all his humiliations and all the ways he's inferior is in itself a good defense mechanism that can ward off bullies. He puts himself down before anyone else does, and by just agreeing with the criticisms about him he doesn't give the bully anything to go after. Nobody expects anything of him becuase he's told them up front he'll disappoint. But with Snape that makes him even angrier and more demanding. I think sometimes Neville just doesn't know what to do about it, like he might be thinking, "But I told him I knew I was useless? What more does he want? I've told him I CAN'T do it and he perversely makes me try anyway!" So that's kind of what Snape does to Neville the way I see it. Like, his family might seem just sort of validated when Neville screws up again and proves they were right and sets them off making arrangements for him.

I'd entirely forgotten this. What should Filch have against Hagrid?

Wellll...isn't Hagrid a big rule-breaker? He breeds dangerous animals he's often not supposed to have.

In OotP Mrs. Norris follows Harry because Umbridge has told Filch Harry is sending away for dungbombs. Filch may have told Mrs. Norris to follow Hagrid because he recognizes him as the rule-breaker type.

[pauraque]

He puts himself down before anyone else does, and by just agreeing with the criticisms about him he doesn't give the bully anything to go after.

That's true. He doesn't really seem to be a target of bullying by the other kids most of the time... if anything, he's just sort of laughed at, and then the kids move on. I'm really starting to wonder what goes on in Neville's head, and what he does with his time...

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

Asphodel and wormwood: Yup. That's my theory. It's not Teh Proof of Snape/Lily, or even evidence except in the minds of the most deluded. It's just interesting that the symbolism should result in a linking of Snape and Lily, and that the result is a simulation of death.

(If you take it as evidence for Snape/Lily, it still doesn't exactly scream "successul relationship".)

Of course, it's entirely possible that JKR just liked combining a death lily with an hallucinogen. Why not?

[pauraque]

Well, I still like it. Call me happily deluded. :)

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

I know there are lots of very good reasons for Filch to be bitter, and that he frequently is right to be upset with the monst -- um, students at the school, but this accusation seems a bit over the top against two eleven-year-olds on their first day. On my first day of junior high, I wound up in the completely wrong wing trying to get to band class, and my junior high was decidedly not a castle. Has Filch reached a point where he genuinely can't believe that a student *ever* makes an innocent mistake, given that most of the time it really is inconsideration or badly covered-up mischief?

I really like the speech. It's *not* the most poetic bit ever, especially the lovely dunderhead ending, but I think it does demonstrate some appreciation for words that we don't really ever see elsewhere in the books. Also, I think there is a strong measure of defensiveness, but also a genuine love of his craft. Personally, I think he loves potions as a magical practice and academic field, but that he figures teaching DADA is a much better deal (which it almost certainly is). As to the defensiveness, it may be partly in keeping with getting the eleven-year-olds to take the class seriously, when they're certainly going to be more excited by the flashier stuff, and a lot of it's probably in keeping with Snape's real or imaginary quest for respect. If they don't think much of potions as a branch of magic, they won't be impressed by their potions master, won't bother with him, and won't show any respect for him.

IMO, Malfoy had absolutely lovely stewed slugs. It's one thing to give a nod and a "good job, Mr. Malfoy," to a student because you like them, quite another to have the rest of the class take a look at their work.

I seem to recall looking once and not seeing any instances of Neville being singled out by Snape until the instance right before the boggart in PoA. Or was that Hermione who wasn't picked on? Anyway, I seem to remember wondering if the idea of Snape going after Neville was more fan assumption than something we see much of. (Not that "idiot boy" is an appropriate way to address a student, obviously. But that could be my imagination acting up again.

If it is just me, and Snape has started a lengthy pattern of picking on Neville, I think it's likely that we can trace this attitude to something to do with the senior Longbottoms, given his treatment of Harry, and I really wish I knew what. I like most of the theories espoused above, perhaps in combination. My other thought is that Snape feels responsible for the attack on the Longbottoms -- it was conducted by friends who'd previously escaped Azkaban -- and doesn't know how to deal with it, so it gets taken out on Neville.

[amythis.livejournal.com]

[Snape] figures teaching DADA is a much better deal (which it almost certainly is).

If you don't mind only having the job for a year, and possibly going mad or dying.

[amythis.livejournal.com]

Snape never goes on a poetic flight of fancy like this at any other time in the books....

Unless he's the one who sent the Singing Valentine.

[pauraque]

Ha, true. :)

[mariagoner.livejournal.com]

'You are here to learn the subtle science and exact art of potion-making [...] As there is little foolish wand-waving here, many of you will hardly believe this is magic. I don't expect you will really understand the beauty of the softly wimmering cauldron with its shimmering fumes, the delicate power of liquids that creep through human veins, bewitching the mind, ensnaring the senses ... I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death -- if you aren't as big a bunch of dunderheads as I usually have to teach.' (102)

This truly is the paragraph that launched a thousand versions of Poetic!Soulful!Snape, isn't it? It's odd to reread these lines and think about how inconsistent this sudden poetic verve is in the usually joyless Snape-- especially when you contrast it to the usual way JKR writes Snape (ie-- as a consistently vicious bully with an ego that scrabbles for every inch it can get.) I wonder if we'll ever see this eloquent side of Snape resurface again?

And yes, good call with Snape immediately going on the defensive and acting as though a bunch of 11-year-olds could potentially be his enemies. Despite the fact that Snape has been teaching for years at this point in HPPS, he still seems to be "green" at the craft of managing children as a responsible grown-up. Make you wonder what extraordinary circumstances drove him to work with a segment of the population he truly hates, eh? ;)




...BTW, have you been to my LJ lately, Pauraque? I left something for you there in the latest entry...

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Makes me wonder if Snape stole that speech from someone. Maybe it was his favorite Potion teachers' speech or something he read somewhere...and he just added the dunderheads.

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

'Ah, yes,' [Snape] said softly, 'Harry Potter. Our new -- celebrity.' (101)

I think I'm probably the only person on the planet who had such a vastly different initial reading of this passage than everyone else.

When I first read this whole passage, I got the feeling that Snape wasn't so much humiliating Harry as he was lecturing to the class at large about the dangers of hero-worship. As in, "See class? Even celebrities are human beings and have feet of clay." At the same time, he could puncture any budding visions of celebrity-hood that Harry might have been developing. The fact that he could do it to James Potter's son was a neat bonus (and one that only made sense after more of the Snape/James backstory was revealed.)

Was it a nice thing to do? No, but I didn't immediately jump to the conclusion that he was being oh-so-mean to Harry. He just seemed like a generically stern/mean teacher who wasn't going to put up with celebrity antics and was laying down the law on Day One.