PS 10

[pauraque_bk]

Man, it's a jungle out there. I'm starting to feel like I need to arm myself to the teeth just to venture out into my friends list. Is there no civilization? Is there no decency, sir? *sips tea*


In Chapter 9, I noted again that black_dog has greater analysis skillz than I do. Lots of other good stuff in that chapter too, go scroll a bit down the page if you hit the post early on.


PS 10: Hallowe'en

Before I read this book, I never knew Britons put an apostrophe in Halloween. O, the things that fandom taught me.

'Potter's been sent a broomstick, Professor,' said Malfoy quickly.

'Yes, yes, that's right,' said Professor Flitwick, beaming at Harry. 'Professor McGonagall told me all about the special circumstances, Potter. And what model is it?'

'A Nimbus Two Thousand, sir,' said Harry, fighting not to laugh at the look of horror on Malfoy's face. 'And it's really thanks to Malfoy here that I've got it,' he added. (122)

Good on McGonagall for telling Harry not to open the broomstick package at the table, but... special circumstances? Okay, they've already broken the rules to let Harry on the team, it stands to reason they could also break the rule that prevents him from having his own broom. But Harry is *rich*, dude. Doesn't it seem a bit excessive to use school funds to buy a top-of-the-line piece of sports equipment for the use of one kid? A kid who could easily afford to pay for it himself?

Flitwick certainly seems cheerful about the prospect of the rules being broken in favor of Gryffindor. Doesn't he have any aspirations of Ravenclaw taking the house cup? Then again, he seems pretty starstruck by Harry... he's the one who falls over backwards when he sees Harry's name on the roll.

'So I suppose you think that's a reward for breaking rules?' came an angry voice from just behind them. Hermione was stomping up the stairs looking disapprovingly at the package in Harry's hand. (123)

I'm with Hermione on this one.

At either end of the pitch were three golden poles with hoops on the end. They reminded Harry of the little plastic sticks Muggle children blew bubbles through, except that they were fifty feet high. (123)

This reads like Harry is starting to think of "Muggle children" as different from himself.

'Now, Quidditch is easy enough to understand, even if it's not too easy to play. There are seven players on each side. Three of them are called Chasers.' (124)

And thusly Wood exposits the rules of the game for the benefit of the readers. However, JKR seems to have forgotten that Ron has already explained the rules of Quidditch to Harry, to the point of starting to take him through "the finer points of the game" (81).

I believe it was malograntum who first pointed out to me that it's sort of strange to capitalize the name of a sport, along with all its equipment and positions. We don't talk about a Quarterback passing the Football (or a Batsman swinging a Cricket Bat, for that matter).

'This,' said Wood, 'is the Golden Snitch, and it's the most important ball of the lot[...]' (125)

I hear that there's some sort of evidence that one of James's ancestors invented the Golden Snitch, and that's how the Potters made their fortune. However, the nature of this evidence presently escapes me.

Harry's partner was Seamus Finnigan (which was a relief, because Neville had been trying to catch his eye). (126)

This sort of tripped me, because Neville would have no reason to be catching Harry's eye -- Flitwick is *putting* them into pairs. Harry has a tendency to assume motivations for Neville that don't seem obvious (or sensical) to me at all.

'It's no wonder no one can stand her,' [Ron] said to Harry as they pushed their way into the crowded corridor. 'She's a nightmare, honestly.'

Someone knocked into Harry as they hurried past him. It was Hermione. Harry caught a glimpse of her face -- and was startled to see that she was in tears.

'I think she heard you.'

'So?' said Ron, but he looked a bit uncomfortable. 'She must've noticed she's got no friends.' (127)

Of course it wasn't too long ago that _Harry_ didn't have any friends either, which I'd like to think contributes to his marginally greater compassion for Hermione.

And hey, what does Ron know -- Neville seems to like her well enough.

[...]Professor Quirrell came sprinting into the Hall, his turban askew and terror on his face. Everyone stared as he reached Profesor Dumbledore's chair, slumped against the table and gasped, 'Troll -- in the dungeons -- thought you ought to know.'

He then sank to the floor in a dead faint. (127)

Like Crouch Jr, Quirrell keeps up a fairly elaborate charade for most of a year, and also like Crouch, does so with considerable gusto and theatrical panache. This dramatic entrance, followed by a faked fainting spell -- then later, he sinks down "clutching his heart". I don't think he _enjoys_ playing his role nearly as much as Crouch did, but he certainly does it well.

Is Voldemort attracted to theatrical types? Or are they attracted to him?

As they jostled their way through a crowd of confused Hufflepuffs, Harry suddenly grabbed Ron's arm.

'I've just thought -- Hermione.'

'What about her?'

'She doesn't know about the troll.'

Ron bit his lip.

'Oh, all right,' he snapped. 'But Percy'd better not see us.' (128)

Of course, the confused students have to be Hufflepuffs. We don't see any hordes of confused Slytherins or Ravenclaws wandering the corridors bumping into things, I notice.

It doesn't occur to Harry or Ron that they could just _tell_ Percy (or another authority figure) that Hermione is in the bathroom, and not have to cope with the situation on their own. This is very typical of Harry (he doesn't trust authority), and I think the idea is that Ron feels guilty that it's his fault she went off on her own in the first place, thus he wants to save her himself.

Harry then did something that was both very brave and very stupid: he took a great running jump and managed to fasten his arms around the troll's neck from behind. (130)

I love the fact that the narration acknowledges that an action can be both these things at once.

[Hermione:] 'I went looking for the troll because I -- I thought I could deal with it on my own -- you know, because I've read all about them.' (131)

I don't really see why this is any better than the truth. She was in the bathroom, Harry and Ron went to warn her. What would it matter what she was doing there? Why does making herself look bad make them look better?

Harry was speechless. Hermione was the last person to do anything against the rules, and here she was, pretending she had, to get them out of trouble. It was as if Snape had started handing out sweets. (131)

This is very clever. Harry doesn't take the next logical step: maybe his early judgment of Snape isn't entirely accurate either.

But from that moment on, Hermione Granger became their friend. There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them. (132)

This leaves me a bit cold. I'll buy that they became friends after this incident, but it really wasn't the shared danger that made Harry and Ron like her, it was the fact that she broke rules to save their hides.


Past re-read posts are yadda yadda yadda.

Comments

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Harry has a tendency to assume motivations for Neville that don't seem obvious (or sensical) to me at all.

You know, I hadn't ever noticed this before - but then, I haven't read PS since before OotP came out. We've heard previous discussion about Snape disliking Neville because he recognises some of his own failings in him. Here we pretty much see Harry doing the same thing, lovely foreshadowing on JKR's part (if it's deliberate, which I think it is) that Harry and Neville could each have been the other, if only circumstances had been different.

This is a particularly interesting chapter for me, because we get to see how Harry insinuates himself into the social hierarchy of Hogwarts, how quickly he acclimates, and how determined he seems not to let himself be the Harry Potter who was picked on in primary school.

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

Children = self-centered little monsters.

And that's my intelligent comment for the day.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

I thoroughly agree.

[dancing-moon.livejournal.com]

Is Voldemort attracted to theatrical types? Or are they attracted to him?

Snape (and Draco) certainly seem to have a dramatic streak as well

[serriadh.livejournal.com]

That's true, but it may also just be that Voldemort chooses not only his most loyal servant(s), but also those most likely to carry it off, to impersonate others/act as a 'spy'.
It seems uncharacteristically intelligent of Voldemort to pick a follower with dramatic flair for this sort of role, but hey!

On the other hand, swooping about it black cloaks, with masks and hoods and a seekrit mark - you can see how that would appeal to the dramatic type.

Lucius is pretty damn (melo)dramatic as well.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

Which raises the question, what does JKR think of dramatic types? You could make a case for drama queens among the good guys, but mostly those are the "funny" ones -- the twins and Tonks. Here we have people who are more dramatic in an everyday, serious sense, and I wonder if JKR doesn't like that. I suppose you could make a case for OotP!Harry doing that, but it seems less the way he is and more simply anger coming through. No real coherent point here; I'm just musing.

[jeddy83.livejournal.com]

Doesn't it seem a bit excessive to use school funds to buy a top-of-the-line piece of sports equipment for the use of one kid?

Well, yes. But maybe they didn't. After all Dumbledore had the key to the Potter vault, so presumably he knows the number of the vault. The purchase could easily have been charged so that the money came from Harry's own vault (the way Sirius charged it to his account when he bought Harry the Firebolt). Pure speculation, I know, but Harry has no idea how much money is in his vault, so unless someone told him he would likely never know.

This sort of tripped me, because Neville would have no reason to be catching Harry's eye -- Flitwick is *putting* them into pairs.

Not quite sure why this trips you up, or why you would consider it evidence of Harry assuming nonsensical motivations for Neville. Though my school days were a while ago, I do remember that the easiest way for a teacher to pair students is to go along counting one, two, one, two. Therefore the best way to get paired with the person you wanted (or to avoid working with someone you didn't) was to go and stand next to them.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

After all Dumbledore had the key to the Potter vault, so presumably he knows the number of the vault. The purchase could easily have been charged so that the money came from Harry's own vault.

I think that this is at least what they *should* have done, but if they did it, I'd hope they'd have *asked* Harry at some point. If they had, he wouldn't have been surprised to get a broom, and he should have known what type it would be. Though now I think about, McGonagall's letter seems to imply that's the case, but Harry's reaction doesn't.

[sieda.livejournal.com]

But maybe they didn't. After all Dumbledore had the key to the Potter vault, so presumably he knows the number of the vault. The purchase could easily have been charged so that the money came from Harry's own vault

Now that is a thought. It makes me uncomfortable, the idea that they can get into Harry's vault whenever they want, spend his money for whatever they want saying it is for his own good or benefit. Actually I wouldn't doubt that they would do that.

I had always thought McGonagall bought it or had the school buy it. She always was up to bending rules until they were unrecognizable for her Cause. (The reason I thought Hermione most resembled her until OotP) She needed the best broom for the hopeful savior of her quidditch team. Just any old thing would never have give her team a chance to win. Though the idea of her spending that much money on one child made me wonder.

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

Okay, they've already broken the rules to let Harry on the team, it stands to reason they could also break the rule that prevents him from having his own broom.

Hmmmm. I'm going to be a contrarian and say -- I'm surprised by people who, I'm sure, would never be mistaken for bluenoses in their real life, who seem to take an elderly aunt's perspective on "rulebreaking" in the HP books. :) Let's look at the rule: no racing brooms for first-years. Obviously, this is a sound general principle since most of the first-years are likely hopeless incompetents at flying and Madame P has better things to do than be repairing broken necks all the time. But Harry is a demonstrated "natural" at flying, and that skill is an important asset for the school, since he has the potential to be an outstanding seeker. What sort of bureaucratic imperative makes it a bad thing to exempt him from a general rule whose presuppositions have been shown, strikingly, not to apply to him? That makes a fetish of the rule, as though it existed for its own sake, I think!

Well, but Harry only demonstrated his ability in the first place because he broke Madam Hooch's rule against flying. OK, but there are two kinds of rulebreaking -- you can break rules in a sort of sneaking, snivelling, selfish way, grasping for a petty advantage that you'd be ashamed to have exposed in public. Or you can set them aside in the name of something bigger, in a way that might or might not be misguided but that reflects a generosity rather than a meanness of spirit. Harry broke the rule on flying because Draco had stolen Neville's remembrall and was possibly going to destroy it -- a kind of indirect bullying (since Neville was out of the picture) that deserved to be shown up.

I'm with Hermione on this one.

I'm not! :) I think her attitude reflects a nasty, levelling enviousness rather than any kind of generous, sensible understanding about what rules are and aren't for.

I'll buy that they became friends after this incident, but it really wasn't the shared danger that made Harry and Ron like her, it was the fact that she broke rules to save their hides.

I agree with you here. But I think this is a good thing. Hermione is showing that she's learned that not all rule-breaking is bad, that high spirits and adventurousness have a tangible value in the world, independent of the possible need to discipline them. This makes her a better person, I think, and one more worthy of Harry and Ron's time. :p

Philosophical coda: I don't think JKR's attitude toward rules is simpleminded or one-sided. I think she realizes that rules and rule-breaking present a problem without an easy answer. One of the constant themes in the books, I think, is that individual recklessness and selfishness, and general moral anarchy, are forces that bubble very close to the surface even an a superficially well-ordered socieity and threaten everyone's well-being. But another theme is that the instinctive authoritarian response to this -- basically, to quell everyone's unruly instincts and encourage/impose a conformist and mediocre sort of passivity (think Umbridge) -- is problematic as well. Not just because it's an unattractive way to live, but because the authority that imposes the rules may itself be corrupt or self-seeking.

I think JKR is saying that you have to find a balance -- test the rules for their fairness and sensibility; test authority for its trustworthiness; never lose sight of the main issue of living well. I'm not suggesting Harry is a model of balance -- quite the contrary, his education is the point of the books. But I do think his spirit of defiance and doubt is a good thing. That raw material needs shaping and discipline, but it's what makes him a personality who is worth developing; without it, he'd be just a useless lump. :)

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

Well, I think we have some decidedly different opinions on the value of rules and reasons for breaking them, though I don't entirely disagree with you. And FTR, I was an *incredible* goody-goody. ;-P

Obviously, this is a sound general principle since most of the first-years are likely hopeless incompetents at flying and Madame P has better things to do than be repairing broken necks all the time.

Interestingly, that's not how I read this rule, though I expect it's a standard explanation from school officials. If that were the case, then the rule should be that students aren't alowed their own broom until they've demonstrated competency at flying, which would then apply to all students, including Harry. Really, I read this rule as being more about fairness, that some students (especially Muggle-borns) wouldn't have the knowledge to get a broom (and to know if they liked flying) until after their first year. Therefore, none of the students should have brooms first year because they'd all feel pressured to, which could be a huge waste for some of them. Also, it may simply be a privilege reserved for older students, like going to Hogsmeade. In those cases, letting Harry have his own broom -- or particularly, giving him one -- most definitely contradicts the spirit of the rules as well as the letter. Do you suppose that if one of the other students had gone to Madame Hooch and demonstrated their excellent flying abilities, they'd have been allowed a broom? I certainly don't, which makes this unfair.

But Harry is a demonstrated "natural" at flying, and that skill is an important asset for the school, since he has the potential to be an outstanding seeker.

Important asset? How exactly is it important to Hogwarts, even the general quality of student life, that Gryffindor have a better Quidditch team? And even then, why can't Harry ride a school broom? If anything, I could see the school buying a couple of nice brooms for students who want to play Quidditch but can't afford their own broom, but not the school buying Harry his own top-of-the-line broom. See, this really is a real-life problem, that schools focus large amounts of money and attention on students who are skilled athletes and afford them a variety of special privileges.

I agree with you that there are times that a person needs to break rules, or that the response for doing so may be positive. I disagree that these incidents were among them. These are situations where, if you (as the administrators here) find that the rules don't fit, then the rules should be adjusted, not simply saying, "okay, well they just don't apply to you specifically."

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on everything you say about rules, with regard to HP and on a meta level. That makes a fetish of the rule, as though it existed for its own sake, in particular rings very true to me. Rules exist to regulate human interaction; they do not exist for their own sake. Saying that rules have to be strictly obeyed without exception disregards the whole range of unexpected circumstances, accidents and, most importantly, situations where acting according to the rules is the exact opposite of acting in accordance with ethics. Umbridge is an excellent example, as the is the personification of rules: I'm sure that all throughout her stay as a teacher at Hogwarts (apart from the finale, where she wanted to use an Unforgivable), she did nothing that wasn't in accordance with the rules - following rules and creating rules is the whole point of her being.

[alya1989262.livejournal.com]

Um, hi, I'm just jumping on the bandwagon a little late...
I'd just like to state that Hermione has been shown to grow up quite a lot in the books. At the beginning of PS, she doesn't question authority (like Percy...); I think that's the point. After the incident with the troll she does allow that rulebreaking can be good in some special circumstances, and that earns her Harry's and Ron's respect. Little by little, she detaches herself for information, the knowledge that such thing is bad, and, by the of PoA, she questions Snape! She becomes most mature in OotP, where she's actually doing active rulebreaking, and sees it as right - she questions authority, and questions it right. We don't ever see her doubting that Dumbledore's word is law, for instance. Hermione has evolved in the most profitable way.
Harry, however, is still partly relying on his gut feelings, because he's very emotive. Unlike Hermione, 'growing up' means for him not taking a step back from authority, but learning to control and rationalise his emotions, which he still has yet to do.
Incidentally, I've only started reading pauraque's journal today (at 5 AM...), and I've been impressed by a) the hard work he's (are you a he??) put into all this and b)black_dog's very insightful comments.
Congratulations on such thought-provoking series of threads.
~Alya~

[underlucius.livejournal.com]

and someone please tell me how you can wrap up a broomstick (TWICE!!!! - once the nimbus and once the firebolt) so that you can't tell what it is???

[jheaton.livejournal.com]

Magic! :-) All you'd have to do is cast an illusion over it to make it look like something else.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Doesn't it seem a bit excessive to use school funds to buy a top-of-the-line piece of sports equipment for the use of one kid? A kid who could easily afford to pay for it himself?

I thought the special circumstances were that Harry was allowed to have a broom at all, not that the school bought them for him. I don't know who actually paid for the broom -- could it have come out of Harry's money? It certainly sheds Mr. Malfoy's buying the entire Slytherin team brooms next year in a better light, though.

This reads like Harry is starting to think of "Muggle children" as different from himself.

I think Harry already thought of other children as different from himself, as he was quite isolated by the Dursleys' actions towards him. He just has a *name* to give that difference now.

I hear that there's some sort of evidence that one of James's ancestors invented the Golden Snitch,

Maybe in "Quidditch through the Ages"? I don't have either of the schoolbooks...

And hey, what does Ron know -- Neville seems to like her well enough.

Obviously Neville doesn't count as far as Ron is concerned.

Is Voldemort attracted to theatrical types? Or are they attracted to him?

I know a theater professional who insists that all actors are Slytherins. Of course, all tech crew are Hufflepuffs according to her (she's a costume designer), so she may be biased.

Voldemort does like the Grand Guignol though, doesn't he?

This is very typical of Harry (he doesn't trust authority)

And it only gets worse as he grows older. Half of Harry's adventures would have been avoided if he'd been taught to trust his teachers. I really wonder what Dumbledore is trying to accomplish with Harry, as he rewards the boy for breaking the rules.

, but it really wasn't the shared danger that made Harry and Ron like her, it was the fact that she broke rules to save their hides.

Perhaps for Gryffindors, breaking the rules is part of sharing the danger?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

as he rewards the boy for breaking the rules.

Bing!

Then again, I'm still of the mind that Dumbledore knew Sirius was going to lure Snape to the Whomping Willow, yare yare yare.

Part 1

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

Doesn't he have any aspirations of Ravenclaw taking the house cup?

I'm struck by this a lot, really. You never get the impression that this (or the Quidditch Cup even) are four-way competitions. They're between Gryffindor and Slytherin, and the Huffs and Claws root for the Gryffs. (Which also strikes me as funny; I'd expect plenty of them, especially the Claws, to really prefer Slytherin.) It's like they get to play, too, but everyone knows they're just being humored.

Then again, [Flitwick] seems pretty starstruck by Harry...

I think you're probably right, but this seems to be genuinely harmless, unlike most of the examples we see of people overreacting to fame. Other than the point in OotP where he gives Harry candy after the Quibbler interview, I can't remember Flitwick ever really singling Harry out. The only moments that come to mind are when he gives Harry extra homework for his inability to do a summoning charm, and then being excited over his brilliant charm in the First Task -- both perfectly appropriate teacherly responses. Maybe Flitwick's an example where you *can* have this excitement over the famous and still have it not affect your competence.

'So I suppose you think that's a reward for breaking rules?' came an angry voice from just behind them. Hermione was stomping up the stairs looking disapprovingly at the package in Harry's hand. (123)

I'm with Hermione on this one.

I think she's right, but she couldn't have picked a worse thing to say. After all, it *is* a reward for breaking rules, but Harry and Ron certainly hadn't *thought* of it like that until just now. I think she's trying to induce a guilt trip, but she's just making them more happy with themselves. Not only has Harry gotten something wonderful, but he did so by getting away with something. Also, she really does sound very jealous and nasty here, not exactly flattering for her own personality.

it's sort of strange to capitalize the name of a sport, along with all its equipment and positions.

It keeps with JKR's way of capitalizing nearly every word she invents, plus some others, which means nearly every word or concept that's unique to the wizarding world. Internally, this makes no sense. One of the key things about wizards in these stories is that they consider themselves completely normal -- it's Muggles who are exotic. They have a tendency not to know what's unique to them and what isn't, because it's all equally an aspect of their own lives. So why would they capitalize perfectly normal, everyday words like Quaffle or Love Potion? Must be a pain for little kids to learn how to capitalize properly.

Of course, the confused students have to be Hufflepuffs. We don't see any hordes of confused Slytherins or Ravenclaws wandering the corridors bumping into things, I notice.

Perhaps the location of the stairs to Hufflepuff's domain and their house tables are just perfectly positioned that the two houses have to basically walk through each other to get to their respective dorms? OTOH, this completely doesn't point out (nor is it ever mentioned) what on earth the Slytherins are doing?? I have to say, if someone came in while I was at dinner and said, "there's a deadly creature somewhere in the dungeons, so you should go to your dormitories, which are also in the dungeons," I'd freak. Any clue where they went?

Re: Part 1

[snakeling]

It keeps with JKR's way of capitalizing nearly every word she invents, plus some others, which means nearly every word or concept that's unique to the wizarding world. Internally, this makes no sense. One of the key things about wizards in these stories is that they consider themselves completely normal -- it's Muggles who are exotic. They have a tendency not to know what's unique to them and what isn't, because it's all equally an aspect of their own lives. So why would they capitalize perfectly normal, everyday words like Quaffle or Love Potion? Must be a pain for little kids to learn how to capitalize properly.

Couldn't that be a hang-up of the 18th century when about every lexical word was capitalised? An exemple here, from A General History of the Pyrates by Daniel Defoe. Maybe the kids do have to capitalise every word in their essays :) At least, it could be a reasonable internal explanation -- I don't think Jo thought it that far :P

Part 2

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

[Hermione:] 'I went looking for the troll because I -- I thought I could deal with it on my own -- you know, because I've read all about them.' (131)

I don't really see why this is any better than the truth. She was in the bathroom, Harry and Ron went to warn her. What would it matter what she was doing there? Why does making herself look bad make them look better?

Yeah, I've never thought that made sense. The cover story was that they were trying to rescue her. The truth was that they were trying to rescue her. So this keeps them out of trouble because ... Now the difference in the story is why Hermione was in the bathroom, but I think she could have easily worded her reason to be there so that they wouldn't be blamed for insulting her. That leaves the main reason to be her own pride. She was okay with them thinking she was stupid enough to go after the troll, but not okay with them realizing she was crying because she had no friends. Actually, I can see that. (But it has nothing at all to do with keeping Harry and Ron out of trouble.) The other possibility is that Hermione, just having seen the troll come in followed by Harry and Ron, just assumed that they'd gone after it and had no idea where she was, so that she *thought* she'd be keeping them out of trouble. Except that if she'd let them tell the truth, none of them would have been in trouble.

I'll buy that they became friends after this incident, but it really wasn't the shared danger that made Harry and Ron like her, it was the fact that she broke rules to save their hides.

True. After all, one would think that facing down a creature drinking blood from a unicorn would be enough shared danger... Also, it may be one of our early views of one of Harry's ugliest traits -- his refusal to think highly of anyone who doesn't agree with him entirely. In this case, it's not so much agreement, but there is a sense of personal loyalty and almost service that seems required to be Harry's friend. In OotP, Seamus proves it by admitting he was wrong about Voldemort's return and apologizing. In SS, Hermione proves it by lying to (allegedly) keep him out of trouble.

Re: Part 2

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

Interesting question about why Hermione's "admission" makes a difference to the authorities. I hadn't thought about that before people pointed out the problem, but I think it makes some sense psychologically even if it doesn't bear the closest examination.

I think it takes the heat off Ron and Harry because it suggest that they were only out of their rooms because of her. It's more forgivable, maybe, for students to feel responsibility for their "friend" than it is for them to be out getting in harm's way out of idle curiosity or adventure. It also makes her the active agent and, perhaps irrationally, draws attention away from Ron and Harry -- the whole thing happened because she was trying to do something, and Ron and Harry become bit players whose actions were a consequence of her own.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Good on McGonagall for telling Harry not to open the broomstick package at the table, but... special circumstances?

I agree with neotoma that the special circumstances are his being allowed to fly at all--though rse the fact that no kid or teacher has a problem with special rules for Gryffindor or top-of-the-line equipment given to Harry (how could they use Harry's money without telling him?) is a little skewed. At least the Malfoys spread the wealth around. In re-reading OotP a couple of us have noticed Cho only starts to care about Ravenclaw winning when she becomes a negative character. In PoA she cheerfully congratulates Harry on beating her on a broom so superior she didn't have a chance. The entire school regularly roots for Gryffindor. It sometimes reminds me of Molly Ringwald's character in the Breakfast Club explaining to Anthony Michael Hall that he and his friends "look up to" her and her friends, which is a laugh.

And I read the rule like arclevel in thinking plenty of students could have demonstrated the ability to fly besides Harry. Seems to me it's an age factor, and also they hold off on letting you bring your own broom until you've had instruction at the school. I could see allowing students to bring schools if they could prove they could already fly, but it's not like it's so important to the school that Harry be able to have a broom this year.

I'm with Hermione on this one.

I agree with Blackdog that this is a case of "a nasty, levelling enviousness rather than any kind of generous, sensible understanding about what rules are and aren't for," but I think Hermione continues to enforce rules out of that exact same nasty, levelling enviousness while easily coming up with great reasons not to have to follow rules when she has a reason.

I think the "blue-nosed aunt" attitude that BD is surprised to see crop up in fandom (as in your reaction here) is not because fans are sticklers for rules even when they're silly, but a reaction against the fact that as far as these books are concerned there is no "generous, sensible understanding of what rules are and aren't for." Breaking rules is a virtue in itself, and people are often shown to be "bad" by paying attention to them, since the only reason *to* enforce them is out of nastiness and envy. Hermione always becomes heroic by breaking the rules for her friends, and always enforces the rules unpleasantly against others. This attitude goes all the way to the ministry.

This sort of tripped me, because Neville would have no reason to be catching Harry's eye -- Flitwick is *putting* them into pairs.

I can believe Neville was trying to catch his eye, since as the above poster pointed out, if you're standing next to your friend the teacher will often just put you together.

Is Voldemort attracted to theatrical types? Or are they attracted to him?

Like I said above, there does seem to be a pretty clear pattern of the vain, cowardly type who is also theatrical. I wonder if there's a suggestion of it being unmanly as well.

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

Is Voldemort attracted to theatrical types? Or are they attracted to him?

I think JKR made the villains theatrical simply because they are more entertaining to read about. But, perhaps, I'm oversimplifying things. There's a long history of colorful, villainous characters in books and film and I think Quirrel, Lucius, Draco and Snape (whether you think they are all villains, or not) fit that bill.

Besides, Quirrel and Crouch's theatrics -- pretending they're something they're not -- serves to mislead the reader as well as the characters in the books. I don't think JKR is intentionally picking on theatrical types.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

(con't)

I don't really see why this is any better than the truth. She was in the bathroom, Harry and Ron went to warn her. What would it matter what she was doing there? Why does making herself look bad make them look better?>

I really do think this is pointless--why couldn't she just say what really happened? It's not like she'd have to tell the teacher she was in the bathroom because of Harry and Ron. But this is also sort of sets up the way Hermione's place in the Trio works throughout the series--she often has to do more than just be herself-if she just said what happened they might have just shaken hands and been distantly pleasant from then on. Instead she makes a show of hurting herself and symbolically goes against her own principles in favor of theirs. After they become friends she lets the boys copy her notes, checks their homework regularly and constantly comes up with ways to solve problems. Hermione's always doing things to show she's a real friend in ways Ron never has to. BD said Hermione doing this makes her "more worthy of Ron and Harry's time," but if you make your friends feel they have to prove themselves worthy of your time, you're not much of a friend.

This leaves me a bit cold. I'll buy that they became friends after this incident, but it really wasn't the shared danger that made Harry and Ron like her, it was the fact that she broke rules to save their hides.

This line, which many people love, has always been a letdown to me-this one and the one where Harry and Ron just make up in GoF because you can't stay mad at your friend when he's facing danger or whatever. I get what's being said, but while those kinds of experience would change the way you see a person, it doesn't erase previous issues. I'd like to see more undercurrent of "friendless Hermione" in her interaction with the boys and more importantly, while I get why they would like her after this I still don't see why they'd enjoy hanging out with her, except that she helps them with stuff.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

I get what's being said, but while those kinds of experience would change the way you see a person, it doesn't erase previous issues.

Very good point. If I can take a moment to utterly shift fandoms, it's like the Buffy episode "Dead Man's Party," which is among my favorites for the first half of the ep and my least favorites for the last half. In it, Buffy and her friends (not to mention her *mother*) have a hideously nasty and very public fight. During it, they're suddenly attacked and (obviously) work together to defend themselves. At the end of the physical fight, they all just forget their argument. Nothing is solved, no one even pretends anything's solved, but they all drop it. This is happening here and, as you say, in GoF where there's something dramatic and physical, and it makes everyone forget the real issues. I wouldn't expect every fight to end with long, drawn-out heart-to-hearts where they figure out all their issues, but I at least want what resolution there is to *notice* the emotional things that are going on. (IIRC, making up with Hermione in PoA does this, although it also uses the idea that Hermione's in the wrong and has to be the one to make amends.)

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

I hear that there's some sort of evidence that one of James's ancestors invented the Golden Snitch, and that's how the Potters made their fortune. However, the nature of this evidence presently escapes me.

It is from QTTA. The Golden Snitch was invented in the 1300s by Bowman Wright of Godric's Hollow as a replacement for the Golden Snidget bird. This seems circumstantial at best, there's no evidence that GH is the ancestral home of the potters.

Doesn't it seem a bit excessive to use school funds to buy a top-of-the-line piece of sports equipment for the use of one kid?

I'd hoped maybe it was a personal gift from McG.

Harry then did something that was both very brave and very stupid

It's kind of like what Lucius says in Flourish and Blotts later.

[pauraque]

Ah, so it was in QTTA. I think the other cited bit of possible evidence is that James was playing with a Snitch in OotP, despite not being a Seeker.

[http://users.livejournal.com/lady_alatariel_/]

I hear that there's some sort of evidence that one of James's ancestors invented the Golden Snitch, and that's how the Potters made their fortune. However, the nature of this evidence presently escapes me.

From what I've heard, that theory seems to at least be partly due to James playing around with the Snitch during the Pensieve scene. Because it was said that he was a Chaser earlier in the books (though, claimed he was a seeker in the movie) so that he really had no other reason to be "showing off with the Snitch"

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

We don't talk about a Quarterback passing the Football (or a Batsman swinging a Cricket Bat, for that matter).

I wonder if it's more for emphasis that this is a Very Special Wizard sport? Re-reading this book, I reminded myself that the average age level of HP books at the time were probably much lower than a lot of the grown-ups of today (just guessing). A lot of exposition is probably used to keep younger kids interested.

Harry's partner was Seamus Finnigan (which was a relief, because Neville had been trying to catch his eye).

Besides Harry and Ron's obvious sniping of Hermione, Harry's relief sort of pisses me off because poor Neville is trying to make friends just like anyone else. He's not a Colin fanboy, but it seems he does honestly like Harry and would like to get to know him, yet Harry is always noticing his faults such as forgetting things, screwing things up and so forth.

[anna-kat.livejournal.com]

here via daily_snitch

Besides Harry and Ron's obvious sniping of Hermione, Harry's relief sort of pisses me off because poor Neville is trying to make friends just like anyone else.

As you said, the books, especially the first, are for children. What 11-year old volunteers to be partnered with the clumsy kid? Every child will easily understand everything that's going on in this scene.

[tenebris.livejournal.com]

I'm so tired, none of this is going to come out right...and I can't spell...but I'll try anyways. :)

Is it possible that all Quidditch players have to buy their own brooms? It seems so; Lucius supplies the Slytherin kids with brooms in CoS, and there's no indication those brooms are for school use only (though, aside from OoTP, there aren't many other mentions of people using brooms; after all, we only get to see one flying practice, and then it seems like it's not on the schedule anymore). In PoA, Oliver refers to Cho riding a Comet Two-Sixty, which if I recall, is not the type of broom the school uses. As well, he keeps hassling Harry to get his own broom--partially to compete with the other teams, yes, but it also maybe because that's what most of the players do. School brooms are mentioned, of course, which would account for families who can't afford brooms for their kids...hmm, another thought: Ron specifically asks for a broom in OoTP, and we learn later that he's practicing for to try out for the Quidditch team. Seems like the two would be connected.

All of this leads up to: well, I don't think the school paid for the broom. I think McG, with Dumbledore's permission, got money out of Harry's account to do so, because Quidditch players are supposed to bring their own brooms.

[amythis.livejournal.com]

It doesn't occur to Harry or Ron that they could just _tell_ Percy (or another authority figure) that Hermione is in the bathroom, and not have to cope with the situation on their own.

Percy must not have been too happy when he heard they went into the girls' bathroom, considering how he reacts in Chamber. That probably upset him more than the troll.

[alya1989262.livejournal.com]

Of course, the confused students have to be Hufflepuffs. We don't see any hordes of confused Slytherins or Ravenclaws wandering the corridors bumping into things, I notice.
You don't think you're being a little... Paranoid here?
Don't get me wrong; I love Hufflepuffs. Cedric Diggory was a fantastic character, and Ernie is possibly one of my favourites. But I think we should be fair, here. JKR most likely picked a random house to be confused! And, if I remember correctly, the Hufflepuff table is the nearest to the Gryffindor one; the seating goes [doors]-Slytherin-Ravenclaw-Hufflepuff-Gryffindor!