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pauraque_bkThere was a good amount of talk in Chapter 11. A lot of it was about ketchup and underpants.
PS 12: The Mirror of Erised
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iibnf had a section about this in her defense of Hagrid, here.
Naturally Ron should be an expert at chess, with old pieces that follow his every command -- that's Dumbledore, practiced manipulator with the same followers he's had for twenty years. But Harry's not sure of himself like Dumbledore is, he's not comfortable in the leadership role people expect him to play. He doesn't know who to trust, who to listen to.
Harry plays another chess game after he gets some chess men of his own, and "suspected he wouldn't have lost so badly if Percy hadn't tried to help him so much" (150). Dumbledore's Army? Percy's letter in OotP?
iibnf has pointed out, Hagrid is the only adult character we see actively behaving romantically and pursuing romantic relationships.
I don't think Snape thinks it's Harry who's out and about. "We'll catch them", he says, not "We'll catch him". I think he's using "they" as an indeterminate singular, but that's just the way it struck me... he could also be using it as a plural, and thinking Harry's friends are with him.
So, why has Snape asked Filch to come directly to him?
nopejr had a ficlet about this: Looking Glass (G).
Also: Peter wanted to get in bed with Harry. *ded*
Past re-read posts are down by the bay.
PS 12: The Mirror of Erised
[T]he Weasley twins were punished for bewitching several snowballs so that they followed Quirrell around, bouncing off the back of his turban. (143)Bwah. The Dark Lord is reduced to being smacked in the face by snowballs.
Worst of all were Professor Snape's classes down in the dungeons, where their breath rose in a mist before them and they kept as close as possible to their hot cauldrons. (143)Brrr. Poor Slytherins, if their rooms are in the dungeon...
Ron and his brothers were staying [over Christmas] too, because Mr and Mrs Weasley were going to Romania to visit Charlie. (144)Ginny went with them, I guess!
'Ever since you mentioned Nicolas Flamel we've been trying to find out who he is.'I skipped over this in the last chapter, but it can be read that Hagrid subconsciously wants Harry to have the information he "lets slip".
'You what?' Hagrid looked shocked. 'Listen here -- I've told yeh -- drop it. It's nothin' to you what that dog's guardin'.' (145)
iibnf had a section about this in her defense of Hagrid, here.'And you could ask your parents if they know who Flamel is,' said Ron. 'It'd be safe to ask them.'On first reading, I read this as simply "They're trustworthy because they're dentists", but for some reason this time it struck me as "Of course it'd be safe because they're *dentists*, not wizards, so obviously they know nothing about it", with maybe an implied eyeroll.
'Very safe, as they're both dentists,' said Hermione. (146)
Ron also started teaching Harry wizard chess. [...] Ron knew [his chessmen] so well he never had trouble getting them to do what he wanted.It's hard for me to read any chess references in the books now without thinking of Knight2King. I'm not an adherent of the theory by any means, but it is fun to play with.
Harry played with chessmen Seamus Finnigan had lent him and they didn't trust him at all. He wasn't a very good player yet and they kept shouting different bits of advice at him, which was confusing: 'Don't send me there, can't you see his knight? Send him, we can afford to lose him.' (146-147)
Naturally Ron should be an expert at chess, with old pieces that follow his every command -- that's Dumbledore, practiced manipulator with the same followers he's had for twenty years. But Harry's not sure of himself like Dumbledore is, he's not comfortable in the leadership role people expect him to play. He doesn't know who to trust, who to listen to.
Harry plays another chess game after he gets some chess men of his own, and "suspected he wouldn't have lost so badly if Percy hadn't tried to help him so much" (150). Dumbledore's Army? Percy's letter in OotP?
Your father left this in my possession before he died.What's Dumbledore's expectation here? He must realize Harry will use the cloak to sneak around -- what child wouldn't?
It is time it was returned to you.
Use it well.
A Very Merry Christmas to you. (148)
Harry watched Hagrid getting redder and redder in the face as he called for more wine, finally kissing Professor McGonagall on the cheek, who, to Harry's amazement, giggled and blushed, her top hat lop-sided. (150)As
iibnf has pointed out, Hagrid is the only adult character we see actively behaving romantically and pursuing romantic relationships.'You asked me to come directly to you, Professor, if anyone was was wandering around at night, and somebody's been in the library -- Restricted Section.'I'd forgotten that Filch has a "soft, greasy" voice. I like it.
Harry felt the blood drain out of his face. Wherever he was, Filch must know a short cut, because his soft, greasy voice was getting nearer, and to his horror, it was Snape who replied.
'The Restricted Section? Well, they can't be far, we'll catch them.' (152)
I don't think Snape thinks it's Harry who's out and about. "We'll catch them", he says, not "We'll catch him". I think he's using "they" as an indeterminate singular, but that's just the way it struck me... he could also be using it as a plural, and thinking Harry's friends are with him.
So, why has Snape asked Filch to come directly to him?
It looked like a disused classroom. (152)I can't recall who mentioned this in an earlier chapter, but there seem to be a lot of unused classrooms at Hogwarts. Perhaps a hint that the wizarding population is diminishing.
She was a very pretty woman. She had dark red hair and her eyes -- her eyes are just like mine, Harry thought, edging a little closer to the glass. Bright green -- exactly the same shape, but then he noticed that she was crying; smiling, but crying at the same time. (153)Okay, hit me with your theories: How does the Mirror work? A reflection of Harry's imagination/subconscious memories? Something else?
nopejr had a ficlet about this: Looking Glass (G).The Potters smiled and waved at Harry and he stared hungrily back at them, his hands pressed flat against the glass as though he was hoping to fall right through it and reach them. He had a powerful kind of ache inside him, half joy, half terrible sadness. (153)I spend a lot of time criticizing JKR, so I have to say, this absolutely works for me. Fit to make a grown man cry. When I read it, I always picture JKR's own illustration:
[Ron:] 'No -- I'm alone -- but I'm different -- I look older -- and I'm Head Boy! [...] and I'm holding the House Cup and the Quidditch Cup -- I'm Quidditch captain, too! [...] Do you think this mirror shows the future?' (155)It isn't meant to, but others have pointed out that this _is_ the way Ron's future is going. He's already a Prefect and a Quidditch hero by OotP, and assuming he does great things in the war, he will certainly become more famed than any of his brothers.
[Dumbledore:] '[...] You, who have never known your family, see them standing around you. Ronald Weasley, who has always been overshadowed by his brothers, sees himself standing alone[...]' (157)I like this line a lot.
[Dumbledore:] '[...]However, this mirror will give us neither knowledge or truth. Men have wasted away before it, entranced by what they have seen, or been driven mad, not knowing if what it shows is real or even possible.' (157)This is interesting. Harry has already been given so much of what he wants, even the seemingly impossible -- being magically whisked away from his miserable childhood. Yet Dumbledore warns him not to want too much, not to want the impossible.
[Dumbledore:] 'I? I see myself holding a pair of thick, woollen socks.'We've already talked about the symbolism of socks (at the bottom of the main entry).
[...]
It was only when he was back in bed that it struck Harry that Dumbledore might not have been quite truthful. But then, he thought, as he shoved Scabbers off his pillow, it had been quite a personal question. (157)
Also: Peter wanted to get in bed with Harry. *ded*
Past re-read posts are down by the bay.
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Date: 2005-01-31 06:38 am (UTC)(I like GrandPre, I do, but I almost would rather have JKR's own illustrations in the book. They're so... homey :D)
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Date: 2005-01-31 06:48 am (UTC)So, why has Snape asked Filch to come directly to him?
He suspects someone's after the Stone, right? He wants to be hip to any nefarious doings and so enlists Filch + Mrs N as extra sets of eyes and ears.
And as for dungeons, isn't it that, the farther underground you go, the more stable the temperature is? So, presumably, the Slytherin dorms could be always cool but never as frigidly cold as, say, aboveground in the winter.
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Date: 2005-01-31 06:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 06:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 06:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 07:08 am (UTC)I have to say I enjoy reading these re-reads, although I have nothing to contribute and barely remember reading a lot of this, although it's gotten a lot easier to go between my French memories to the English discussion now.
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Date: 2005-01-31 09:20 am (UTC)It is time it was returned to you.
Use it well.
A Very Merry Christmas to you. (148)
What I don't understand is why James would give the cloak away to Dumbledore when a) he didn't know he was going to die so suddenly and have to bequeath it to anyone at all, and b) it would have been a useful thing to have had in his possession while he and his family were in hiding, after all.
And JKR doesn't actually say that the gift comes from Dumbledore, and there is no signature - the only clue is the 'narrow, loopy' writing, which we are led to assume is his...but my guess is that it comes from someone else...Wormtail? Snape? ... who was there on the night James was killed. It doesn't say it was 'given' to the person either, but that it was 'left in their possession' (possibly unintentionally - did they steal it?). Very mysterious.
Who else would have a motive for giving Harry the cloak, though? In what way is he supposed to 'use it well'? Did they just feel guilty about hanging on to it for so long ? Is this the HBP making a first appearance? Did *Scabbers* transfigure himself into Peter to write the letter? :) It just all seems a bit suspicious, to me.
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Date: 2005-01-31 09:24 am (UTC)sorry. ahem. pet theory. :}
i figure it was part of dumbledore's plan to 'encourage' James to go from brilliant-yet-sadistic bully to Leading Man material, as it were. you know, praise him for not letting snivellus die, take away his invisibility cloak as a slap on the wrist, show your confidence in his potential strength of character by making him Head Boy....
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Date: 2005-02-01 09:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 10:17 am (UTC)Yes she does, in the last chapter.
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Date: 2005-02-01 09:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 05:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 06:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 09:24 pm (UTC)I think maybe Dumbledore has some of the more wizarding-related valuable objects of the Potters because they were living like muggles in Godric's Hollow. If I remember correctly JKR commented on this after the first movie, that she didn't put it in the book but they *were* living like muggles.
Dumbledore may have more things -- he had the key to Harry's vault, too, what else has he got, hmmm?
- Clara
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Date: 2005-01-31 11:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 03:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 01:34 pm (UTC)I've always excused it as Gryffindor pleasure at "innocent" mischief, but since I've now gone over into the "Dumbledore really ain't all that and, in fact, I think he's a manipulative bugger" camp (must think of an acronym)....
If Harry snoops around on his own, without much chance of being caught, he will learn some things that Dumbledore should not, by rights, be telling or putting on a First Year's shoulders. Furthermore, when Harry gets in trouble (oh, say, having to defy a really pissed-off Evil Overlord) and somehow does the right thing, Dumbledore is then obliged to tell him the truth. Or rather, an expurgated version of the truth. Acclimatizing him to his destiny (to make the leap from Point A to, oh, Point M), without having to spring it all on him at once.
That's a negatively-slanted interp, of course -- the positive, flip side is that Dumbledore is "encouraging" Harry to be independent, to investigate and use his wits. Sorry. We're taking about an eleven year-old and an Evil Overlord and minion, here -- I can't help thinking it was very careless (please won't someone think of the Hogwarts chilluns?). Another negative is the possibility of being able to lay blame: "If you hadn't gone snooping, Harry, you wouldn't have got in this mess." Dumbledore's unlikely to pull that, however: even I don't see him as that cold-bloodedly manipulative. (Snape is another matter.)
I'm postulating all this given that last exchange between Dumbledore and Harry in OotP, of course.
Makes Hagrid's intentionally loose-lipped approach, as someone Upthread postulates, downright ethical.
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Date: 2005-01-31 03:47 pm (UTC)What mistake? Over-protectiveness.
That, I think, is JKR's values coming through. I can't be having with complaints that she doesn't present clear moral guidelines for the little kiddies, 'cause clear moral guidelines make for rather boring fiction as a rule. (And even considering the matter of rule-breaking from the PoV of the characters... my mother, who's been a high-school teacher since before I was born, says that a selective blind eye and deaf ear are absolutely essential tools for the job. She endorses school uniform codes simply and solely because it gives the kids something harmless to rebel against. Anywayyy...) If you look, I think you'll find the message over and over throughout HP, at all sorts of levels: from childhood on, people must, must, must be allowed to face dangers for themselves.
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Date: 2005-01-31 02:16 pm (UTC)Maybe because previous perpetrators of mischief came in either pairs or foursomes?
OK, it's probably more likely to be an awkward way of getting out of saying "we'll catch him" or "we'll catch her".
'Very safe, as they're both dentists,' said Hermione. (146)
Hermione isn't usually considered funny. Maybe that's because her humour is a bit less obvious than Ron's, for example. Also, I suppose people tend to focus on the more straightlaced aspects of her personality. I would always have read this as a sly rejoinder.
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Date: 2005-01-31 02:37 pm (UTC)One of my favourite moments in the books. Just because it's funny at the time and even funnier looking back! SUFFER VOLDIE-CHAN! :D
Where did you get that illustration of JKR's from. I haven't seen that before! Don't suppose you have a link?
Rowling's drawings
Date: 2005-02-01 03:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-01-31 03:51 pm (UTC)1.) I like the idea that men (TM) have been driven mad staring at them. They are neither knowledge nor truth!
2.) Seriously, I think this does need to be read in relation to the Dursley's "gifts." There's a certain tiresome piety (that I don't think JKR totally buys into) in Dumbledore's being content with what counts as nothing at all to Harry, though of course there's the issue of perspective--a sock becomes literally the most important *thing* in the world to Dobby. (There's also the fact that a sock is what you put Xmas presents in; like the ritual of Christmas itself is more valuable than what specific gifts one gets.)
I think Hagrid must have retrieved the cloak from Godric's Hollow. Is it the only thing of his father's that Harry has ever been given? Perhaps the only thing to survive the fire?
If the Mirror, in a hilarious ironic twist, *does* show the future, then HARRY DIES. And the staring in the Mirror than DD warns of is a kind of death anyway.
Which is what this chapter is about and why it's so central, IMO: because the HP series is a fantasy, and PS/SS in particular is based on a kind of rigorous and relentless wish fulfillment. This chapter says, don't just sit around indulging in wish-fulfilling fantasies. But do keeping reading the book. And the next one and the next one and go to the movies and spend time in fan communities and buy merchandise...
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Date: 2005-01-31 04:51 pm (UTC)On one hand I feel like...well, it's Harry's cloak. He should have it. It's not really Dumbledore's job to decide when to give it to him--though it does seem like he waits until it suits him to do it. I guess the only problem really would be if there was any reason kids weren't allowed to have an invisibility cloak. Otherwise it's obviously giving Harry something that makes it hard on teachers, like giving him the Marauders Map.
I don't have so much trouble with Dumbledore sending Harry into dangerous situations, actually, since I think I see him acting more in the role of wizard teacher there--I tend to get more annoyed when he suddenly wants to be grandpa as well who just wants wittle Harry to be happy. Frankly I prefer him giving Harry the cloak to face his own dangers than I do the idea of him giving him the cloak so he gets to feel like Santa, you know? To get back to the "special rules for Harry" idea, for instance, if Harry is just lucky enough to own an invisibility cloak that's life. If Dumbledore gave it to him when other kids couldn't have it it would be more official notice to other kids that Harry got special privileges.
It isn't meant to, but others have pointed out that this _is_ the way Ron's future is going.
I tend to think of the Mirror of Erised as being always very dangerous, and the main thing here, as Dumbledore points out, is that Ron is alone and a star. That's a little different than just being one of many prefects (one that's struggling) and a good member of the Quidditch team. If Ron got these things once he stopped wanting them that would be good, but so far it seems like Ron's remained a little short of the starring role all the time. This could still be a weakness-even more of a weakness-the closer Ron seems to come to his goals.
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Date: 2005-01-31 06:47 pm (UTC)Seriously though, there are so many chess references, and we don't think it's a coincidence. Particularly when you get to the some of the descriptions of characters in GoF.
As for the bit about Dumbledore holding socks, it breaks my heart, because if Ron does turn out to be Dumbledore, it would just be a heartbreaking indication of how much he misses the love represented in the maker of said socks: his Mum, Molly.
But yeah, that's our crack we're smoking. We can't think why else Dumbledore would desire socks.
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Date: 2005-01-31 11:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-02-01 02:57 pm (UTC)Magic.
hahahahahaha *runs away*
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Date: 2005-02-03 07:49 am (UTC)One thing about this chapter that I don't know if anyone noticed though, is the fact that we get a small morsel of information concerning Harry's looks, and they are hard to come by! Apparently his eyes are not only the same colour as his mother's, but also the same shape. Which is, according to OotP, almond shaped. Could he have east asian ancestors? Well, probably not.
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Date: 2005-02-04 12:01 am (UTC)Could he have east asian ancestors?
I doubt it. A number of European ethnicities are sometimes described as having "almond-shaped" eyes. If I had to guess, I'd say Lily's family comes from Wales; Evans is a Welsh surname.