GoF 7

[pauraque_bk]

Forgot one thing in Chapter 6:

'No, the Lovegoods have been there for a week already and the Fawcetts couldn't get tickets,' said Mr Diggory. 'There aren't any more of us in this area, are there?' (68)

Luna lives near Ron and Cedric.

Lots of lovely discussion last chapter! Don't miss caesia390 and black_dog on queer readings, now buried in collapsed threads.


GoF 7: Bagman and Crouch

'It's like some sort of ... I dunno ... like some sort of rally,' said Mr Roberts. 'They all seem to know each other. Like a big party.'

At that moment, a wizard in plus-fours appeared out of thin air next to Mr Roberts's front door.

'Obliviate!' he said sharply, pointing his wand at Mr Roberts.

[...]

'Been having a lot of trouble with him. Needs a Memory Charm ten times a day to keep him happy[...]' (72)

Sigh!

No one will be surprised that I find this bit of Muggle mistreatment distasteful as well. Given what we know about Memory modification, I can't believe this doesn't do Roberts any harm. And he's not the only one, either -- the Diggorys go to a separate camp site with a different Muggle caretaker.

'Right,' [Mr Weasley] said excitedly, 'no magic allowed, strictly speaking, not when we're out in these numbers on Muggle land. We'll be putting these tents up by hand! Shouldn't be too difficult ... Muggles do it all the time ... here, Harry, where do you reckon we should start?'

Harry had never been camping in his life; the Dursleys had never taken him on any kind of holiday, preferring to leave him with Mrs Figg, an old neighbour. However, he and Hermione worked out where most of the poles and pegs should go[...] (73-74)

I just realized how strange it is that Arthur keeps turning specifically to Harry when Hermione's right there. He did it with the clothes, then with the money (71), and again with the tent. But surely Hermione had a more normal Muggle childhood, and should be more familiar with these things. As Harry notes, the Dursleys always tried to keep him shut away from the world.

Harry bent down, ducked under the tent flap, and felt his jaw drop. He had walked into what looked like an old-fashioned, three-roomed flat, complete with bathroom and kitchen. Oddly enough, it was furnished in exactly the same sort of style as Mrs Figg's; there were crocheted covers on the mismatched chairs, and a strong smell of cats. (74)

Some fans had guessed that Mrs Figg wasn't a Muggle before OotP; this is probably one of the stronger clues. The tent actually belongs to Arthur's co-worker Perkins.

'Who cares what [Krum] looks like? He's unbelievable. He's really young, too. Only just eighteen or something. He's a genius, you wait until tonight, you'll see.' (77)

Though Ron purchased himself a dancing-shamrock hat and a large green rosette, he also bought a small figure of Viktor Krum, the Bulgarian Seeker. (85)

Ron's fancrush on Krum absolutely slays me. Boys and their sports heroes!

'I bought this [nightgown] in a Muggle shop,' said the old wizard stubbornly. 'Muggles wear them.'

'Muggle women wear them, Archie, not the men, they wear these,' said the Ministry wizard, and he brandished the pinstriped trousers.

'I'm not putting them on,' said old Archie in indignation. 'I like a healthy breeze round my privates, thanks.'

Hermione was overcome with such a strong fit of the giggles at this point that she had to duck out of the queue, and only returned when Archie had collected his water and moved away again. (77-78)

Archie! How fandom loved you! Pre-OotP, this was our primary evidence for what wizards wore (or didn't wear) under their robes. Of course, this was before Snape's infamous underpants.

It does seem that it's the older wizards who have a harder time with dressing like Muggles, as I was thinking earlier.

I only cited Hermione's reaction because it cracked me up. Despite the Obliviation business, this chapter is a lot more appealing to me than the last few have been.

[Arthur:] '...and that's Bode and Croaker ... they're Unspeakables ...'

'They're what?'

'From the Department of Mysteries, top-secret, no idea what they get up to...' (79)

Broderick Bode! We hardly knew ye (before you got killed in the next book).

[Ludo Bagman] had the look of a powerfully built man gone slightly to seed; the robes were stretched tightly across a large belly he surely had not had in the days when he had played Quidditch for England. (80)

Addressing again the issue of whether Quidditch is really a sport that requires much physical exertion. (Or maybe it addresses how much weight a broomstick can hold, though Crabbe and Goyle don't seem to have a problem.)

[Bagman:] '...My Bulgarian opposite number's making difficulties, and I can't understand a word he's saying. Barty'll be able to sort it out. He speaks about a hundred and fifty languages.'

'Mr Crouch?' said Percy, suddenly abandoning his look of poker-stiff disapproval and positively writhing with excitement. 'He speaks over two hundred! Mermish and Gobbledegook and Troll...' (82)

OMG Mr Crouch squee!!!!11

Okay, seriously. Harry isn't surprised that Percy is a Crouch fanboy, since Crouch is severe and rule-loving -- even Vernon would approve (83). Help me, guys: Does Crouch forget Percy's name because he's already under the Imperius, or because he genuinely doesn't appreciate Percy? Because I don't think it makes sense for Percy to fanboy someone who doesn't give him any particular approval.

The parting in [Crouch's] short grey hair was almost unnaturally straight and his narrow toothbrush moustache looked as though he trimmed it using a slide rule. (83)

What? A slide rule is something you use for (oh dear) maths, not measuring. Maybe she meant he does complex moustache-trimming calculations.

'Oh, and I've been wanting a word with you, too, Arthur,' said Mr Crouch, his sharp eyes falling upon Mr Weasley. 'Ali Bashir's on the warpath. He wants a word with you about your embargo on flying carpets.' (83-84)

Yeah, I remember this now. Arthur doesn't just enforce the law, he makes it. Checks? Balances? Who needs 'em!

Since it does seem that a family vehicle that could transport several people would be very useful to the magical community, I can only assume that the underlying reason for the continuing ban on magic carpets has something to do with the (English) broomstick industry. Carpets will "never replace brooms in Britain, will they?" says Bagman (84). Interesting.

Easy transport changes a society. The present wizarding world is one where families and villages are rather isolated from each other. Arthur remarks on how wizards show off when they get together -- indicating that it happens rarely. It's like the US before cars were affordable and the interstate system was built.


Previous GoF posts are saved in memories here.

Comments

[biichan.livejournal.com]

Hee. Yeah, the Lovegoods and the Weasleys are semi-neighbors. I always imagine part of the reason that Ginny and Luna are friends are that they grew up together. Man, I want Little Luna and Ginny fics, where they run around Devonshire together and plan to be in the same house at school.

Also, WHY ARE THERE NOT PERCY/CEDRIC FIC!?! They're the right age for each other and they both have the whole Head Boy thing going on and, and... yeah.

[pauraque]

Yes! More summertime fics! More pre-Hogwarts fics! More and more!

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

I would be all over Percy/Cedric fic.


Um, reading it, I mean. I'm buried alive under plot bunnies as it is, especially after seeing the Wikipedia article for Saint Blaise.

[t0ra-chan.livejournal.com]

Hee. Yeah, the Lovegoods and the Weasleys are semi-neighbors. I always imagine part of the reason that Ginny and Luna are friends are that they grew up together. Man, I want Little Luna and Ginny fics, where they run around Devonshire together and plan to be in the same house at school.

Quite honestly, I don't think that Ginny and Luna are friends. Acquaintances, but not friends. Why? Because Luna mentioned Ginny only once in HBP (when she said that Ginny defended her), but as far as I can remember (my memory might be faulty here), they never actually hang out in HBP. Also, Luna mentions twice that she has no friends. First concerning the DA, saying that she misses it, because 'it was just like having friends'. The second time it's when Harry asked her to Slughorn's party, when she says that no one has ever invited her, even as a friend.

Seems like Ginny's relationship with Luna is the same Harry has with Neville: defending him against others, but never actively seeking him out or spending time with him one on one.

[gmth.livejournal.com]

OK, here's a question that's been bothering me for ages: what the heck are plus-fours?

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

Sort of like culottes, IIRC. (Thank you, Harry Harrison!)

[pauraque]

Plus fours are loosely tailored slacks cut 4 inches below the knee. They have been traditionally associated with sporting attire from the 1860s and onward, and are particularly associated with golf.

Like this.

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

I had to ask Tommy Riddle that. He's a golfer so he explained it for me. :D

As a matter of interest, he also told me it is pronounced "ploo-fours." En Francais!

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Bode and Croaker... doesn't bode too well for someone who's going to croak?

Help me, guys: Does Crouch forget Percy's name because he's already under the Imperius, or because he genuinely doesn't appreciate Percy?

He's not under the Imperius Curse at all yet. Not until after Voldemort and Wormtail came for Jr, which was after they'd returned from the QWC and freed Winky.

[pauraque]

Right, of course, because V was insisting they couldn't do it until after the QWC.

Dammit, Percy, make sense!

[silentauror.livejournal.com]

Aw, poor Percy and his unrequited crush on one of the nastiest gits in this book. It actually sort of makes sense to me that he'd respond like an overly eager puppy to the most basic form of recognition from this man he admires so much - such as noticing his existence, say. Despite the little name thing. Oh, Percy. *sigh*

I remember wondering why Arthur would have been opposed to the handy family transport vehicle given how expensive broomsticks are, and his own financial status. Curious, that. And perhaps he's got a bit of a fanboy crush on Harry, himself? I love the bit where Hermione kindly take the matches away from him and lights the fire herself. :)

[pauraque]

I'm not sure if we're supposed to laugh at Percy when he fawns over Ministry bigwigs (as he does in this chapter and the next), but it just seems sad to me. He's so desperate for approval!

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

just realized how strange it is that Arthur keeps turning specifically to Harry when Hermione's right there. He did it with the clothes, then with the money (71), and again with the tent. But surely Hermione had a more normal Muggle childhood, and should be more familiar with these things.

Several possible reasons, to pick and choose as you like:

1. It's the Aura of Harry, and his Boy Who Lived glamour.

2. Arthur is one of a family of boys, and has only one daughter. Perhaps he's not comfortable around teenage girls? We don't see him interacting with Ginny much.

3. Hermione works so hard to be knowledgable about the wizarding world that Arthur, in all his absent-minded glory, forgets that she's Muggle-born. (Cue running gags about Molly constantly having to remind him.) Seems unlikely, but then, I can't remember my friends' surnames half the time.

[pauraque]

He also may not realize how messed up Harry's childhood really was. He was surprised the Dursleys didn't say goodbye to him, remember.

[vvvexation.livejournal.com]

Also, he's known Harry longer, and he spent the last summer but one grilling him constantly about Muggle things. Probably he's built up a strong association by now: Muggle question -> ask Harry.

[amythis.livejournal.com]

'I'm not putting them on,' said old Archie in indignation. 'I like a healthy breeze round my privates, thanks.'
Hermione was overcome with such a strong fit of the giggles at this point that she had to duck out of the queue, and only returned when Archie had collected his water and moved away again. (77-78)

I like this passage because one, it's canonical-smut (like the goblins comparing the size of their clubs in PoA), and two, it shows Hermione has a sense of humour.

Maybe she meant he does complex moustache-trimming calculations.

Very funny! I think I assumed she meant because it's a straight-edge.

[pauraque]

On further consideration, I don't think Harry would know what a slide rule really is, so maybe it works. :D

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

Without getting into the ethics (or lack thereof) of memory charms in general. and on Muggles in particular, what I really don't get here is *why* their doing them ten times a day. They know that he's been "needing" them ten times a day, so if they do one now they'll have to do it in another hour-and-a-half or so. Why bother? Isn't it easier to give him some lame excuse (isn't that what the Ministry Division of Muggle-Worthy Excuses does?) for now? Such as, "well, we've got a few loosely associated groups and societies getting together, lots of old university friends and the like. I'll admit, some of us are a bit odd, but hey, those folks come up with the *best* gadgets, don't they?" And then you let him spend the next week or so (as the Weasleys were among the last to arrive) getting increasingly suspicious and, if you insist, you do *one* Memory Charm at the end of everyone's stay so that he just remembers there was some sort of convention, and a few of the people there were really a bit odd. It seems both much less damaging to Mr. Roberts and a lot easier on the Ministry officials. (Being tortured and dangled upside down in mid-air might be a bit trickier, but the Ministry folks didn't know that would happen, unlike his being suspicious.)

I suspect that Mr. Crouch addressed Percy by the wrong name his first day of work, and Percy was too embarassed and in awe to correct him, so he's been Weatherby ever since.** It's entirely possible Mr. Crouch has no idea that he's got the wrong name for his assistant. Of course, it ought to be subtly correctable; Percy's turning in reports, so he could put his name on those. This also might explain his devotion to Fudge -- he's not as impressive as Crouch, but he's higher up, which to Percy almost automatically means better, and he actually knows who Percy is.

**There was a hockey player from Germany named Uwe (Oo-vay) Krupp. When he was still in the minor leagues, coaching legend Scotty Bowman said (roughly), "You-ee, we'd like you to join our NHL team, and here's the contract." Krupp felt that he had the choice to correct Scotty's pronunciation or sign the contract. He signed, and despite the story (and correct pronunciation) becoming widely known, he spent his entire playing career as You-ee Krupp. Of course, a mispronunciation's a bit easier to deal with the entirely wrong name, but the basic idea is there.

Maybe it's just me, but there's always been something token about Hermione's Muggle-background. It's important because it puts her under threat in CoS, and it lets her have a generally positive family background without giving the Weasleys competition for Harry's affection and attention, basically. But, as has been pointed out, she "assimilated" almost instantly, she avoids spending time with her family, she provides Wizarding-life explanations almost as fast as Ron after a couple years. Her stance on house-elves seems to be the only way her background has *really* influenced her. So maybe it's unsurprising that Arthur turns to Harry because Harry seems more Muggle-born somehow, despite not having so much real interaction with the non-Dursley Muggle world.

Alternately, in these gatherings of Weasleys + Harry + Hermione, she seems a bit of an add-on. Harry's been all but adopted; Hermione's just a friend. Maybe it's more natural for Arthur to turn to him because he thinks of him first in most ways (and I don't mean that slashily). Which could be quite uncomfortable for Hermione, really, when she notices the pattern.

[alya1989262.livejournal.com]

you do *one* Memory Charm at the end of everyone's stay so that he just remembers there was some sort of convention, and a few of the people there were really a bit odd. It seems both much less damaging to Mr. Roberts and a lot easier on the Ministry officials.
I'm not sure this would be such a good idea... I have been thinking about it too, and I think that making people forget big things is what damages their memory; it seems a lot safer to make them forget little things repeatedly.

The Hermione moment cracks me up, because I was like that when I was fourteen, too. =)

[donnaimmaculata.livejournal.com]

I've always wondered about the "Muggle artefact" thing. Because - aren't brooms Muggle artefacts as well? Just as carpets? Honestly! I'd like to hear Arthur's explanation to Ali Bashir about what it is about brooms that doesn't make them Muggle artefacts.

Hermione having a giggling fit about Archie's privates is one of the few instances in the books where she actually laughs (apart from smiling triumphantly after outwitting someone). Most of them have to do with (male) sexuality: when Molly tells Hermione and Ginny about a love potions and the three of them "come across rather giggly"; the Archie incident and, later in GoF, the referee's reaction to the Veela. Is Hermione generally considered sexually mature? I think she's just extremely insecure in that respect. (And tries to make up for it by anaylising people to death.)

I really like how Rowling introduces characters that will be important in later books by mentioning them in passing: from Sirius in PS to Luna in GoF.

[vvvexation.livejournal.com]

Good point about Hermione. As for brooms, I think Arthur mentioned there was a List of Proscribed Charmable Objects, so there's probably also a list of exempt objects that includes brooms.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's my Dark!Weasley love, but I like to think Arthur's got some latent Pureblood pride there that makes him automatically turn to Harry for questions on anything. He does know Hermione is Muggleborn, but despite her practically living at her house he seems to know nothing about her parents. Certainly Ginny never goes to visit her at her house. The family feels comfortable making little remarks about how silly Muggles are. It's not that I think he thinks of Hermione as Muggleborn and therefore thinks less of her, but that he automatically responded to Harry as the "real" wizard he is and so has always interacted with him differently.

With Percy, I can imagine that Crouch has just gotten his name wrong the first or second time and Percy didn't correct him. It's not like he keeps forgetting his name, after all. He just thinks it's Weatherby. Even so, I can see Percy fanboying him anyway, because what he loves about him is his talent, not what Crouch does for him-I don't think Percy is as cutthroat ambitious as some think. He's not a ruthless climber at the Ministry, imo. He really wants to be a competent member of the team. So I can see him thinking that his own name isn't important; what's important is his work.

Ironic though, isn't it, that Arthur accuses him of getting promoted just for being a Weasley when there's probably plenty of people in power who think he's a Weatherby?

Arthur's embargo on magic carpets does indeed sound like another example of Arthur assuming what he wants should be law and enforcing that.

[amythis.livejournal.com]

So a halfblood is superior to a Muggleborn even on the knowledge of Muggle life? Wow, Arthur is messed up.

[trobadora]

I don't remember exactly how Percy responds to being called Weatherby, but I can imagine he might actually like not being looked at as "another Weasley".

[pauraque]

Ah, not a bad idea. How sad, if true, that Percy wants to distance himself from his family that badly...

[very-improbable.livejournal.com]

What? A slide rule is something you use for (oh dear) maths, not measuring.

Perhaps the trim was so straight that it looked like he had used a slide rule to guide it--like cutting your hair with a bowl over your head.

And I sort of figure that Percy swallows the "Weatherby" bit because Mr. Crouch is such an Important and Busy Person that he gets a little forgetful with the small details. (Perhaps with a side order of Knowing Deep Down that Crouch really appreciates him, despite, well, all evidence to the contrary.)

[pauraque]

And then they have sex.

*cough*

[lycoris.livejournal.com]

I think what JKR mean with the slide-rule is that you'd use the weird little bit in the middle to frame the actual mustache bit. Er, if that makes sense.

As for Mr Crouch getting Percy's name wrong, I've always, always thought that Weatherby was a name of Mr Crouch's old assitant and that Percy knows this which is why he doesn't say anything. My only "proof" for this is when Mr Crouch goes loopy later - he's asking Weatherby to sort things out while talking about his son's OWLS. I felt that if there wasn't an original Weatherby, it doesn't make any sense. Then I discovered no one else thought this and got disheartened but it's my canon and I'm sticking to it! :)

[pauraque]

Hm, possibly! Or it could be that he's so far gone he's mixing up years and such.

[cosmob.livejournal.com]

Brooms versus carpets: I've always thought that brooms are preferred (and legal) over carpets because carpets have a much greater chance of being seen by Muggles. It's much easier for a Muggle to pass off seeing a small speck (person riding a broomstick) going across the sky as a fluke, something in the eye, a trick of the light, etc. A carpet, however, has a much bigger footprint, and it would be much harder to not notice a larger rectangle passing overhead.

[pauraque]

This is the only logical explanation I've heard for this so far. Thanks!

[pilly2009.livejournal.com]

Since it does seem that a family vehicle that could transport several people would be very useful to the magical community, I can only assume that the underlying reason for the continuing ban on magic carpets has something to do with the (English) broomstick industry. Carpets will "never replace brooms in Britain, will they?" says Bagman (84).

Maybe it has more to do with culture than industry, and an unwillingness to be assimilated. Broomsticks may be considered English when flying carpets are distinctly Arabian, and while it may be fine for a few wizards from either culture to use the other's method of travel (or maybe not fine, considering the ban), they would prefer to keep their cultures separate, or unique.

Addressing again the issue of whether Quidditch is really a sport that requires much physical exertion. (Or maybe it addresses how much weight a broomstick can hold, though Crabbe and Goyle don't seem to have a problem.)

I don't remember what position Bagman played, but I imagine that being a Beater would require a good amount of physical exertion; if the Bludgers are heavy and fast enough to break an arm, it would take a lot of muscle to whip them around the pitch. Maybe being a Chaser also requires muscle, or the same amount of muscle as is required to be a baseball pitcher.

I just realized how strange it is that Arthur keeps turning specifically to Harry when Hermione's right there.

It's a little weird...but really, Arthur just knows Harry better. Before this summer, he had only met Hermione twice (once in Diagon Alley in CoS, and once again in Diagon Alley in PoA, where she shared one supper with the family before heading off to school). And even in GoF, he's only been living with her for a handful of days. Harry has spent a comparatively larger amount of time with the family.

[pauraque]

Maybe it has more to do with culture than industry, and an unwillingness to be assimilated. Broomsticks may be considered English when flying carpets are distinctly Arabian, and while it may be fine for a few wizards from either culture to use the other's method of travel (or maybe not fine, considering the ban), they would prefer to keep their cultures separate, or unique.

Yeah, that could be. Despite all the international cooperation jazz in this book, there are definitely overtones of cultural separation.

[hilarita.livejournal.com]

Of course, with Snape's Infamous Underwear Incident, we should remember that he's a half-blood, and while his mother may be perfectly happy with breezes, his father may have brought him up to believe that it's not healthy.