in future.

[pauraque_bk]

First: I do not have an axe to grind here. I honestly don't have strong feelings about this subject one way or the other, and it's not my intention to offend anyone. I don't want to be inflammatory, I just want to improve my understanding. But I'm going to talk about incest, so if that makes you too upset to argue rationally, you may want to skip this.


A long time ago, a friend and I were discussing the gradual drift towards sexual permissiveness in this society, and I mentioned in passing that I thought that same-generation incest (without having children) would eventually become generally acceptable. She disagreed, but her arguments did not convince me.

So I want you to tell me why my viewpoint is incorrect. Not morally wrong -- I'm not interested in judging sexual morality here, I'm only interested in what you think will happen in society, and why. How does the sibling incest taboo differ from the homosexual taboo? Why would one become accepted and not the other?

Incest is not a universal taboo -- it's accepted in some cultures, in some contexts.

It's disgusting to many people in this culture -- but so is homosexuality.

It can produce unhealthy children -- but between contraception and medical advances, how much of a problem would this really be?

Acceptance of it could result in more couples who are not having children -- but so does homosexuality. Incestuous couples could adopt.

It has a connotation of abuse to many, and indeed abusive incest has harmed many. The same can be said of homosexuality. Where's the evidence that same-generation incest is necessarily abusive?

There is a minority of people who enjoy it and/or prefer it and wish it were permitted, and others who are already willing to defend their right to practice it consensually.

And consider this: A lot of you reading this are involved in Harry Potter fanfic. Incest stories are not at all uncommon in this fandom, and even people who don't write it, read it, or like it (such as myself) have become desensitized to its presence. I don't care that it exists, and apparently neither do most other people in the "liberal" areas of the fandom. Does this not serve as a model of exactly what I'm asking about? Is this not an example of a diverse society observing a minority trend to break a taboo, initially being upset by it, but eventually tuning it out and accepting its presence?

Once again: *I'm not saying incest is good*. I'm only saying that I think the incest taboo's days are numbered.

So have at it. Change my mind. Don't worry about offending me; I don't have anything invested in believing either way. I'll let you know when I'm convinced.

Comments

[vaznetti]

How does the sibling incest taboo differ from the homosexual taboo? Why would one become accepted and not the other?

Hm. Interesting stuff, and I'm not sure I have an opinion one way or another--I'm just playing with ideas here. And you know, I probably also have a slightly different point-of-view, in that in Greek society intergenerational incest (of the uncle-niece variety) was encouraged, as was the marriage of first cousins, while Roman society had a strong taboo against uncle-niece marriage: so I tend to see these prohibitions as socially constructed rather than natural.

It strikes me that the reason that intergenerational incest is not considered a legitmate choice in our society has to do with issues of consent: that is, a child is not considered able to give free consent or to withhold consent in a sexual relationship with an older member of the family. The same rules apply to sexual relations between teachers and students, or within the workplace, two areas in which our society has become notably less permissive over the past decades. And the power imbalance between the more senior member of the group and the more junior member of the group is held to exist even when the junior member is technically above the age of consent. An unmarried faculty member of, say, 35 who has a sexual relationship with a graduate stuent of 23 might well find him or her self in quite a lot of legal trouble, with attendant social consequences. Even if the graduate student believed that he or she had enetered the relationship of his or her own free will, the other members of the organization might hold that the relationship by nature is one of coercion.

So I think that sibling incest would only become acceptable in our society if it can be construed as a sphere in which consent can be freely given; but if the relationship is believed to be such that the younger sibling would be incapable of withholding consent, the relationship would remain prohibited. My guess is our society tends to see relationships between first cousins as consent-based.

All this to say that I'm not sure homosexuality is the only appropriate comparison, because I think that for many people the issue of consent is tricky, whenever an older sibling and a younger sibling are in a relationship. Maybe that's why F/G is so popular?

[pauraque]

Yes, the issue of consent is probably why "incest rights" haven't followed closely on the heels of gay rights so far. It would probably take a lot of examples of consensual *middle-aged* incestuous couples to break down the... I want to say 'stereotype'... of incest necessarily being an abuse of power. Once people reach a certain age, the age gap becomes less of a concern.