GoF 19

[pauraque_bk]

Highlights from Chapter 18:

-sistermagpie: The wand-weighing is just obscene. ♥

-Snape and Hermione, Snape and Draco.

-millefiori: I believe Hermione is wrong about Ron being jealous.


GoF 19: The Hungarian Horntail

Harry has at last found love at Hogwarts. His close friend, Colin Creevey, says that Harry is rarely seen out of the company of one Hermione Granger, a stunningly pretty Muggle-born girl who, like Harry, is one of the top students in the school. (276)

As pilly2009 mentioned earlier, Colin is probably innocent here. Presumably Rita asked him if Harry hung out with any girls, and Colin told the truth. You could postulate that Colin deliberately put forth the rumor out of some kind of jealousy, but there's not much evidence for that.

Harry was full of admiration for the way [Hermione] was handling the situation. [...]

'Ignore it,' Hermione said in a dignified voice, holding her head in the air and stalking past the sniggering Slytherin girls as though she couldn't hear them. 'Just ignore it, Harry.' (277)

More martyr!Hermione. She's quite the saint here, even after Pansy compares her to a chipmunk.

You miss [Ron]!' Hermione said impatiently. 'And I know he misses you.'

'Miss him?' said Harry. 'I don't miss him...'

But this was a downright lie. Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. (278)

*basks in the Harry/Ron-itude*

What? You Sirius/Remus people have your pseudo-canon slash pairing, and I have mine.

This makes it sound like Ron told Hermione flat-out that he misses Harry, which I doubt. Again, her knowledge is probably based on her reading of his feelings.

Viktor Krum was in the library an awful lot, too, and Harry wondered what he was up to. (278)

He's actually following Hermione around, if I recall correctly. I wouldn't accuse Viktor of being less than gentlemanly, but it is maybe a little unusual for an 18-year-old to be dating someone just barely 15.

Hagrid had his usual enormous tankard in front of him, but Moody was drinking from his hip-flask. (282)

Drinking Polyjuice, of course.

Hagrid now bent down on the pretext of reading the S.P.E.W. notebook as well, and said in a whisper so low that only Harry could hear it, 'Harry, meet me tonight at midnight at me cabin. Wear that Cloak.' (283)

This Harry/Hagrid moment brought to you by Out-of-Context Theatre.

Four fully grown, enormous, vicious-looking dragons were rearing on their hind legs inside an enclosure fenced with thick planks of wood, roaring and snorting[...] (286)

Potterverse dragons are clearly animals, not intelligent beings. Sirius notes that they're "powerfully magical", but unlike many dragons of European myth, they don't speak, nor do they seem to have a hypnotic gaze. Dragons are presented as awesomely important in a lot of modern fantasy, but Rowling seems mostly uninterested in them except as plot devices and obstacles.

'I didn't know you were bringing [Madame Maxime], Hagrid,' Charlie said, frowning. 'The champions aren't supposed to know what's coming -- she's bound to tell her student, isn't she?'

'Jus' thought she'd like ter see 'em,' shrugged Hagrid, still gazing, enraptured, at the dragons. (287)

Hagrid never explains why he brought Harry out here, but presumably he's trying to give him an advantage. He knows Maxime isn't supposed to see the dragons (he admonishes her not to tell anyone), but if he really thinks she won't tell Fleur, he's kidding himself.

skelkins mentioned last chapter that it often seems Hagrid isn't being held to the same standards as the other characters -- his childish aspects are dismissed as part of a semi-bestial (even Unfallen) innocent nature. Under that reading, it simply doesn't occur to him that Maxime would tell Fleur, because that would be cheating, and he doesn't understand sin, right?

But if that's what JKR is going for, it doesn't work for me. He's cheating to help Harry, after all, though I'd guess that in his mind he's just trying to even the playing field. I think it's more that he's so infatuated with Maxime that he barely cares what she tells Fleur.

I also like iibnf's reading that Hagrid uses people's assumptions of his childishness to get away with certain things.

He had no doubt whatsoever what Karkaroff was up to. He had sneaked off his ship to try and find out what the first task was going to be. [...] By the looks of it, the only champion who would be facing the unknown on Tuesday was Cedric. (289)

Pure, innocent Cedric! I have to link back again to the discussion on cheating from Chapter 17 here.

'Karkaroff,' said Sirius. 'Harry, he was a Death Eater. You know what Death Eaters are, don't you?' (291)

This is the only useful information Sirius really provides, I think, though Harry could have gotten that info another way. When the conversation starts, Harry spills his guts about the emotional trials he's been through, with no one believing him, and his anxiety about the dragons, and Sirius comes back with "Well, we can deal with dragons, but what I REALLY wanted to tell you was that Karkaroff's evil, and now let me talk about my experiences in Azkaban and how he got let out and how very bitter I am." If Harry was hoping for some fatherly comfort, he was disappointed.

[Sirius:] '[Bertha Jorkins] disappeared in Albania, and that's definitely where Voldemort was rumoured to be last ... and she would have known the Triwizard Tournament was coming up, wouldn't she?'

'Yeah, but ... it's not very likely she'd have walked straight into Voldemort, is it?' said Harry. (292)

Shush, Harry, I'm trying to suspend my disbelief!

Sirius's dialogue here sounds paranoid, except that he's mostly correct -- Voldemort is plotting to use a DE to destroy Harry, it just isn't Karkaroff.

And what exactly are these rumors about V's whereabouts, and how would Sirius hear them? For me, this is a very precarious attempt to make a plot fit together that really doesn't make as much sense as the author wants it to.

'But you can [defeat the dragon] alone,' said Sirius. 'There is a way, and a simple spell's all you need. Just--'

But Harry held up a hand to silence him, his heart suddenly pounding as though it would burst. He could hear footsteps coming down the spiral staircase behind him. (293)

Sirius's advice being interrupted at the crucial moment here reminds me of the useless mirror in OotP. Sirius wants to help, and Harry wants to be helped, but the functionality of the relationship is always blocked in some way.

He knew that Ron had no idea what he'd walked in on, knew he hadn't done it on purpose, but he didn't care -- at this moment he hated everything about Ron, right down to the several inches of bare ankle showing beneath his pyjama trousers. (294)

Oh, showing a little ankle, is he? *wolf-whistles*

I couldn't really get what JKR was saying here until a later paragraph where Ron's "too-small" pyjamas are mentioned, so I guess what's going on is that in Harry's rage at Ron, he even resents his poverty.


Previous GoF posts are saved in memories here.

Comments

[wootsauce.livejournal.com]

Dragons are presented as awesomely important in a lot of modern fantasy, but Rowling seems mostly uninterested in them except as plot devices and obstacles.

On the one hand, magical creatures and animals seem to be treated as extremely subordinate and marginal, but I'm really glad there's no dragon soulbonding crap going here.

And, wow, it's STILL wierd for me to be reading your summaries of the books in English. I keep forgetting that I've read these chapters.

[pauraque]

I tried very hard to read Coupe de Feu, but couldn't manage it. The combination of the French and the... er, boredom did me in.

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

He knew that Ron had no idea what he'd walked in on, knew he hadn't done it on purpose, but he didn't care -- at this moment he hated everything about Ron, right down to the several inches of bare ankle showing beneath his pyjama trousers

I hated Harry's treatment of Ron here and I guess I've always been surprised that some fans revile Ron for his jealousy in this book because I think Harry's treatment of Ron in this scene is worse.

[pauraque]

I don't really get why some folks hate Ron. He seems to have fairly understandable reactions to most things that happen in the books.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Well, Harry is feeling angry and betrayed and is channeling his feelings in a bad way. I'm not saying that he's in the right here, and even though he has reasons, they might not be good reasons. At least not for normal people.

But the thing is, Ron is the closest friend he has and the person he trusts most, I'd say. Having him think that Harry is lying when he isn't probably makes Harry feel abandoned in a way.

I mean, when the whole school believes that he cheated to get his name into the goblet he truly expects Ron to believe in him. Does he have a right to expect this? Would he have believed in Ron if the situation was reversed? I don't know. He probably doesn't know himself, since he hasn't even considered it; he just goes along with what he's feeling.

For me, Ron being jealous or not isn't the issue (and he was one of my favourite characters up until OotP when I started to lose interest in him a bit), but his distrust is.

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

He resents Ron's poverty because he thinks that Ron resents his wealth, and he also resents his own impulse to pity Ron.




...And I'm back to not reading these. I have not said this. You have not seen me. I am not here.

[aubrem.livejournal.com]

Hello again. I see you. Now you have to stay.

Go on, talk more. I like the way you think.

[wootsauce.livejournal.com]

I think that's a good point, as it strikes me as strange for Harry to spontaneously dislike someone for their poverty in any situation, irrational anger or not.

[embossedsilver.livejournal.com]

I forget how very slow this book could be in places. It's my second favorite (first being PoA) but I think my judgment is often clouded by how much I like the last 100 pages or so. Basically, great first chapter, a few great character moments, nothing great until the Pensive, then one scene of high emotion after another.

[pauraque]

In doing this commentary, I've noticed more than ever how slow the bulk of the novel is. JKR takes an extraordinarily long time to make her points and get through certain events -- I'll comment on some detail in one chapter and then see it repeated over and over in subsequent chapters, and it's sometimes frustrating, because it's like... there's nothing new here. Get on with it!

I didn't dislike GoF on first reading because I was so blown away by the last several chapters, which I still think are great. If only the rest of the book had been a fitting lead-up, instead of the long-winded meander it actually is (in my humble opinion).

[hilarita.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't accuse Viktor of being less than gentlemanly, but it is maybe a little unusual for an 18-year-old to be dating someone just barely 15.

That depends. In our sex-orientated age, we find this disturbing, mostly because Hermione's too young to shag legally. But not so long ago, the age difference wouldn't really be commented upon. Especially as Hermione's very mature for her age. But my mother was just 15 when she met my dad, who was 18, and this was back in the early 60s.

[alya1989262.livejournal.com]

Hmm, when is the legal sexual maturity age (does that make sense in English) in the UK? In France, it's 15.

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

Is it significant that the help Sirius was trying to offer ended up being used by one of the other champions anyway, and failing?

Oh, showing a little ankle, is he? *wolf-whistles*

There's a line in HBP about Ron showing a little ankle, too. I'm pretty sure those are almost Molly's exact words.

*adds Ron's ankles to LJ interests*

Welcome to AnkleWatch2005!

[pauraque]

To go with Lupin's cardigan and Snape's infamous underpants!

[nakedcelt.livejournal.com]

This makes it sound like Ron told Hermione flat-out that he misses Harry, which I doubt. Again, her knowledge is probably based on her reading of his feelings.

Yes, Hermione is quite the little empath from GoF on, isn't she?

Just something I've been thinking about since being diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome (http://www.livejournal.com/users/nakedcelt/93535.html): Hermione displays many of the symptoms, especially in the early books, but now suddenly she's growing out of the negative ones? OK, I guess JKR was trying to kill a stereotype here, but — *bzzzzzzt*. Asperger's people really do have trouble, all our lives, in telling how other people are feeling.

Mind you, all is not lost. Another character with several Asperger's-like symptoms turns up in the next book. Yeah, that's right: Luna Lovegood.

[conuly]

I never had Hermione pegged as an aspie. Luna, now, she's spectrum all the way.

[pauraque]

My brother has been diagnosed with Asperger's, and is very handicapped by it indeed, always has been. I believe his case is more severe than most -- he's further along the autistic spectrum than most people who are called Asperger's.

Maybe that's why it often irks me when it's suggested that various fictional characters have Asperger's, simply because they lack empathy or are socially inept. I think I acted a fair amount like Hermione when I was younger, and I grew out of it, because my behavior wasn't rooted in a neurological disorder.

I'm the first to raise eyebrows at some of JKR's questionable characterization choices -- Ginny, anyone? -- but I don't think pre-GoF Hermione was being characterized as Asperger's, and I don't think it's a stretch for her to change in those ways as she's matured.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

So am I the only one thinking that at this point Ron was already trying to patch things up with Harry and that Harry's reaction spoiled it all ?

[vvvexation.livejournal.com]

Nope, you're not. When Ron starts to explain why he came downstairs (I don't recall the exact words, but I remember this being mentioned in Anatomy of a Rift), it sounds an awful lot like he was either checking up on Harry out of concern, or looking for him to try and extend the hand of friendship once again. But Harry's tone makes him hesitate to explain himself, and it's all downhill from there.

[pauraque]

No, I think you're probably right.

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

And what exactly are these rumors about V's whereabouts, and how would Sirius hear them? For me, this is a very precarious attempt to make a plot fit together that really doesn't make as much sense as the author wants it to.

Amen. IMO, GoF is the weakest book in the series. The plot makes no sense at all, and what there is of it is buried under 100,000s of pages of fluff that has nothing to do with the real story. Sure, it may be flashy and cinematic fluff, but it is still fluff.

[pauraque]

Yeah, I agree. I think the movie might be fun to watch, just because there will be plenty of opportunities to impress us visually. As far as the book goes, though, it's like... this could be exciting if it had anything to do with the actual plot and what's really at stake.

[amythis.livejournal.com]

As pilly2009 mentioned earlier, Colin is probably innocent here. Presumably Rita asked him if Harry hung out with any girls, and Colin told the truth.

If Colin does ship Harry/Hermione though, he's probably not the only one at Hogwarts who does, since no one seems particularly shocked by the idea.

More martyr!Hermione. She's quite the saint here, even after Pansy compares her to a chipmunk.

Yes, but then the revenge against Rita Skeeter shows another side of her later.

*basks in the Harry/Ron-itude*
What? You Sirius/Remus people have your pseudo-canon slash pairing, and I have mine.

Pseudo??? This book in particular is chockful of anvil-sized hints of Harry/Ron, even if JKR would deny them fervently.

I wouldn't accuse Viktor of being less than gentlemanly,

He plays Quidditch professionally for chrissake!

but it is maybe a little unusual for an 18-year-old to be dating someone just barely 15.

Most of the couples we see in the books are only a year or two apart, and Remus thinks he's too old for approximately 13-years-younger but legal Tonks. OTOH crushes on people three or four years older are apparently OK.

This Harry/Hagrid moment brought to you by Out-of-Context Theatre.

Giggle, the Invisibility adds a nice touch.

Dragons are presented as awesomely important in a lot of modern fantasy, but Rowling seems mostly uninterested in them except as plot devices and obstacles.

Yet they keep popping up, and I'm waiting to see if Draco's name being in the Hogwarts motto has any significance.

'I didn't know you were bringing [Madame Maxime], Hagrid,' Charlie said, frowning.

"I was hoping for some time alone."

'Jus' thought she'd like ter see 'em,' shrugged Hagrid, still gazing, enraptured, at the dragons. (287)

Hagrid seems to assume everyone shares his dragon-fancy.

Pure, innocent Cedric!

With his unicorn-core wand.

If Harry was hoping for some fatherly comfort, he was disappointed.

Yet he persists in seeing Sirius as a father substitute.

Shush, Harry, I'm trying to suspend my disbelief!

As I've said before, any time JKR tries to describe Voldie's out-of-England experiences, it sounds utterly muddled and contrived.

And what exactly are these rumors about V's whereabouts, and how would Sirius hear them?

In the love notes from Remus?

Sirius's advice being interrupted at the crucial moment here reminds me of the useless mirror in OotP. Sirius wants to help, and Harry wants to be helped, but the functionality of the relationship is always blocked in some way.

Assuming Sirius actually did know a way to defeat the dragon.

I couldn't really get what JKR was saying here until a later paragraph where Ron's "too-small" pyjamas are mentioned, so I guess what's going on is that in Harry's rage at Ron, he even resents his poverty.

And his long legs with the red hairs.


P.S. If anyone thinks my multi-shipping's out of hand now, wait till the Yule Ball chapter.

[pilly2009.livejournal.com]

Assuming Sirius actually did know a way to defeat the dragon.

His way was apparently Krum's way, which he managed with few (if any) injuries.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Obscene, I tell you!:-D

You could postulate that Colin deliberately put forth the rumor out of some kind of jealousy, but there's not much evidence for that.

Colin is also described as Harry's good friend. We know Rita lies, but I suspect there's a little wish-fulfillment going on there too. Colin probably *wanted* to talk about Harry and probably presented himself as someone to do so, so what he's getting out of the thing is probably being called Harry's good friend. Even if Colin didn't tell Rita he was that (which he may have), I'm sure he wasn't bothered by it. So while I don't think Colin deliberately made up gossip, he's not completely innocent here.

He's actually following Hermione around, if I recall correctly. I wouldn't accuse Viktor of being less than gentlemanly, but it is maybe a little unusual for an 18-year-old to be dating someone just barely 15.

This romance is just so ridiculous it's amazing JKR had the guts to do it. I mean, Hermione is this ordinary-looking nerdy girl, and the 18-year-old sports star with hoards of groupies happens to fixate on her from afar and fall in love with her? Because she's the only girl in school who doesn't care that he's a star? Yup, that's how it always is for us those nerdy girls.

Also, it's kind of interesting the way Hermione (who was recently compared to a chipmunk and burst into tears at an insult about her looks) is annoyed at the girls in the library and criticizes them by saying Viktor's not even good-looking, they only like him for his Quidditch talent. Err...is that bad? I mean, isn't it a little less shallow liking somebody for a talent than for their looks? Would Hermione not have liked Lockhart save for his good looks after all?

This is the book that seems to lay the groundwork for Hermione despising Pansy, but she kind of sounds like her here with her, "He's not even good-looking!"

I think it's more that he's so infatuated with Maxime that he barely cares what she tells Fleur.

You'd think he'd know dragons aren't necessary. The woman is a half-giant. Hagrid's got a big advantage over other men there and it's got nothing to do with pets. Unless she knows some really special engorgement charms, Hagrid's got it made.

I think part of it is also just that Hagrid loves showing off to people. He wants to show anybody he can the dragons. Note also that Charlie's counted the eggs knowing that Hagrid would steal another one in a second even after PS/SS!

If Harry was hoping for some fatherly comfort, he was disappointed

LOL! Yeah, though I suspect just getting it all out is supposed to be all the comfort he needed.Harry no doubt remembers this as how Sirius always made him feel better when they talked.

Sirius' ideas about Karkakoff do make sense, though. He's wrong, but at least he's coming up with some ideas about what could be going on and he's not completely off. He's trying to deal with some very shaky plot here.

I couldn't really get what JKR was saying here until a later paragraph where Ron's "too-small" pyjamas are mentioned, so I guess what's going on is that in Harry's rage at Ron, he even resents his poverty.

Yeah, Harry's pretty low there. It was mentioned above that Harry resents his urge to pity Ron and that's probably part of it, but I think it also fits into a larger problem Harry has with Ron's inadequacies. It's like when Ron is choking at Quidditch in the next book and Harry is just no help whatsoever. Part of it is that Harry is just no help to anyone and in a bad mood, and resentful when he can't play Quidditch that year, even. But it also seems to be just a case of Harry finding it very difficult to put himself in someone else's shoes that way. He's just doesn't get why Ron can't just be cool. He's sympathetic about it up to a point, but then there's Ron looking foolish and Harry gets impatient. I think it's sort of the same thing here. It seems too much thought for Harry to connect Ron's pajamas to his being poor and having grown out of them, it's just why does Ron have to look so lame? He's angry at Ron the person and those skinny ankles are a perfect symbol of Ron the person.

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

I mean, Hermione is this ordinary-looking nerdy girl, and the 18-year-old sports star with hoards of groupies happens to fixate on her from afar and fall in love with her?

I read a comment/essay/post somewhere (I *wish* I could remember where!) speculating that Viktor--presumably a pureblood wizard and from Durmstrang, an anti-muggleborn school--was fascinated with Hermione because she was muggleborn. And of all the girls at Hogwarts she was the most obviously so, being a friend of Harry's and pretty well known to everyone (especially after the Rita article). If he's been kept away from them, and told how disgusting they are, and sick of Karkaroff trying to run his life, then he might just rebel, and indulge his curiosity, by fixating on Hermione. At any rate, that theory made a lot more sense to me than the idea of Viktor just suddenly falling for her for no reason at all.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

He's cheating to help Harry, after all, though I'd guess that in his mind he's just trying to even the playing field.

donnaimmaculata had an interesting post - specifically in this thread; touching on how the other teachers are characterised as much less trustworthy than Dumbledore and Hogwarts in general, for no good reason, really.
Later, iirc, it's mentioned how competitive they are for having told their students about the tasks by Hagrid, who completely fails to notice that he's helping Harry cheat. http://www.livejournal.com/users/donnaimmaculata/47429.html?thread=553797#t553797

I guess what's going on is that in Harry's rage at Ron, he even resents his poverty.

Personally I think Harry is irritated that there's one area in life Ron can 'beat' him at - the poverty martyr stakes. Harry may have the Tragic Upbringing and Unwanted Fame, but Ron can feel self-pity for being poor, which just won't do.
But you know me, I'm never overly charitable! ;)

[pilly2009.livejournal.com]

even after Pansy compares her to a chipmunk.

And so the first blood is drawn for the Pansy vs. Hermione feud. First time I read this, I thought it was pretty random (because they'd never even interacted before), but meh. Although, it is food for ActuallyPretty!Pansy theories.

This is the only useful information Sirius really provides, I think, though Harry could have gotten that info another way. \

Well, he also foreshadows, hinting at what happened to the real Moody. But yeah, Sirius and Harry's conversations are always so frustrating to read.

I wouldn't accuse Viktor of being less than gentlemanly, but it is maybe a little unusual for an 18-year-old to be dating someone just barely 15.

I hate to bring anime into this, but this strongly reminded me of a whole slew of anime relationships where the man is a full-grown adult (in some cases, a professor even), and the woman can barely even be called a woman, as opposed to a schoolgirl. It might just be an eastern allowance that would be frowned upon in the West.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Although, it is food for ActuallyPretty!Pansy theories.

Skeeter describes her as such. Which obviously has to be taken with a grain of salt, but then, iirc, we're supposed to see Harry as fairly handsome, which is how she describes him, yeah?