A bit of fic theory
Feb. 18th, 2004 06:21 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pauraque_bkI was thinking earlier about how in both of my primary fandoms, the most popular slash pairings are antagonistic, whereas the most popular het pairings are -- what do you call that? -- extended friendships. "Buddy" pairings. You've got Mulder/Scully and Harry/Hermione-Ron/Hermione for het, and Mulder/Krycek and Harry/Draco for slash.
In HP, the most obvious "buddy" slash pairing (Harry/Ron) is relatively neglected[1], and the biggest antagonistic het pairing (Snape/Hermione) is nowhere near as popular as its "buddy" counterparts. The primary antagonistic het pairing in XF is Krycek/Scully, something of a niche interest. It's hard to make a judgment about buddy slash pairings in XF, because there aren't any really obvious ones (unless you count Mulder/Skinner, which doesn't approach the popularity of Mulder/Krycek).
I can think of many examples and counter-examples from other fandoms, so I wouldn't say this is a meta-fandom trend, but might it say something about the tone of a specific fandom? Or its relative attitudes toward slash and het?
[1] Though, of course, the second most obvious buddy slash pairing (Sirius/Remus) is much more popular. There may be other issues in S/R that remove it a few steps from other HP slash pairings -- its association with H/G and R/Hr, and the tendency to feminize Remus.
In HP, the most obvious "buddy" slash pairing (Harry/Ron) is relatively neglected[1], and the biggest antagonistic het pairing (Snape/Hermione) is nowhere near as popular as its "buddy" counterparts. The primary antagonistic het pairing in XF is Krycek/Scully, something of a niche interest. It's hard to make a judgment about buddy slash pairings in XF, because there aren't any really obvious ones (unless you count Mulder/Skinner, which doesn't approach the popularity of Mulder/Krycek).
I can think of many examples and counter-examples from other fandoms, so I wouldn't say this is a meta-fandom trend, but might it say something about the tone of a specific fandom? Or its relative attitudes toward slash and het?
[1] Though, of course, the second most obvious buddy slash pairing (Sirius/Remus) is much more popular. There may be other issues in S/R that remove it a few steps from other HP slash pairings -- its association with H/G and R/Hr, and the tendency to feminize Remus.
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no subject
Date: 2004-02-18 06:48 pm (UTC)Oh, and het antagonists...try Buffy :-)
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Date: 2004-02-18 10:46 pm (UTC)*nods* That may be largely true. I was going to say that I like both, but I can't quite think of a good example of a buddy pairing I like. I read Ron/Harry, but I like it best when it plays up the hostility between them. I like Harry/Neville too, but I like it for the "shadow self" stuff between them, as was mentioned below, though it isn't antagonistic in that case (yet!).
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Date: 2004-02-18 06:55 pm (UTC)Perhaps it’s just the desire of an audience to see the Prince/Princess get the hero as well as the villain.
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Date: 2004-02-19 12:21 am (UTC)That's a different way again of looking at it: Seeing a fandom as a whole, one that wants to see *everything*, every possible permutation. Fandom mob theory!
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Date: 2004-02-19 05:48 am (UTC)Re:
Date: 2004-02-20 06:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-18 07:03 pm (UTC)Just thought I'd point that out. :D
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Date: 2004-02-18 10:39 pm (UTC)Re:
Date: 2004-02-19 02:34 am (UTC)(Of course, maybe Draco/Ginny does it to a greater extent. I wouldn't know, since I don't read much HP fic, and that pairing just ... mweh.)
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Date: 2004-02-20 06:21 pm (UTC)Sometimes, but not necessarily. I see a lot of "angry sex" in Mulder/Krycek, Scully/Krycek, Snape/Sirius, and so on. It depends entirely on who's writing it.
no subject
Date: 2004-02-18 07:50 pm (UTC)It's interesting that you say that as I've always thought that Snape/Hermione was
regrettablythe biggest het pairing in the HP fandom. Maybe it just seems that way because it's a pairing I tend to avoid, unlike say, R/Hr, which I'm fairly neutral to, and therefore tend not to notice.Re:
Date: 2004-02-18 10:37 pm (UTC)I doubt that, but on the other hand, there are no hard numbers. I've certainly been left with the impression that Ron/Hermione is the number one het pairing, with Harry/Hermione trailing. It seems to us that Snape/Hermione is very popular since we're both in Snape fandom (and neither of us like the pairing), but I don't want to make the mistake of taking our corner of fandom as representative of the whole, you know?
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*smacks self across the head*
Damn! You're right; I'd completely forgotten that the reason I never see R/Hr is that I only tend to look at archives of Snape-fanfiction.
A moron is I.
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Date: 2004-02-18 08:02 pm (UTC)With all the usual What Do I Know caveats of course.
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Date: 2004-02-18 10:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-18 10:32 pm (UTC)I think it's just more about the individual characters. People wrote M/K (or I guess they still do -- I'm just thinking about my time in the fandom) because they had a *lot* of sexual chemistry. Ditto M/Sk. (And I never thought that there was *that* great a difference in the popularity of those two pairings.) But so did Mulder and Scully. Because Mulder has chemistry with almost everyone he comes in contact with, including Lucy the gorilla in that ep with the zoo animals.
In HP, it's different, since we're talking about kids instead of adults, books instead of weekly TV episodes. Schoolboy rivalry like Harry and Draco's can be sparky and neither of them seem as entirely het as Ron does. (In one my spates of Ron/Draco badfic reading, I found this lovely bit in the obligatory scene where Ron tells Hermione and Harry about his affair: Hermione says, "I would never have expected this of you! Harry, maybe, but not you!" Which seems to sum it up. *g*)
I think there are less antagonistic het pairings because the protagonist is normally a man and his antagonist is normally his shadow self, and thus, another man. Male-female antagonistic relationships don't often exist in the same way. (I'm speaking of the source material here, not RL.) Outside of Buffy/Spike, what is there?
There's a pretty thriving lot of Hermione/Draco badfic, but I think it's normally softened and the enemies element bleached out a lot.
Hmm, maybe part of it is that Harry and Ron don't have an equal relationship. They're not Starsky and Hutch. Harry is the hero and Ron is the sidekick. They don't save each other; Harry saves them both.
K, getting too long and rambly now. :) Shutting up.
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Date: 2004-02-19 12:17 am (UTC)As is always the case, there aren't hard numbers on the relative popularity of pairings. It's possible that I see M/Sk as being less popular because I don't care for it.
Schoolboy rivalry like Harry and Draco's can be sparky and neither of them seem as entirely het as Ron does.
It *is* hard to read Ron as queer, though I never really thought of characters' actual straightness as being an obstacle to slashers. It didn't stop me from slashing Ron (though it did give me pause), but maybe some of that comes from my own queerness -- I do tend to find straight guys appealing, maybe in the same "ooh, different!" way that female slashers find queer guys interesting.
I think there are less antagonistic het pairings because the protagonist is normally a man and his antagonist is normally his shadow self, and thus, another man.
Very good point. Above I mentioned Harry/Neville, which I enjoy as another kind of "shadow self" relationship, though not necessarily an antagonistic one.
Thanks for letting yourself ramble; your response was very interesting.
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Date: 2004-02-19 07:28 am (UTC)Yes, that's a good point. Hmm. And I have slashed Ron myself, though two times out of three, he was still definitely straight.
OK, maybe it's more the relationship, not just the matter of inequality that I mentioned before, but the complexity of the relationship. I love Ron with a surpassing love, but there really isn't anything about Harry and Ron's friendship that I find all that interesting. They're kids at school, they're mates, they have disagreements sometimes, and that seems to be about it, though I have hope that book six will show some growth in that area.
I'm going to have to think about this some more.
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Date: 2004-02-19 01:35 am (UTC)Although, thankfully, McGonagall/Snape pairings remain few and far between.
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Date: 2004-02-19 01:58 am (UTC)*g* Can't please everyone.
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Date: 2004-02-19 10:27 am (UTC)*shudders at the idea of Dumbledore/McGonagall, which seems to be the other popular one*
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Date: 2004-02-20 06:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-19 01:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-19 07:12 am (UTC)Re:
Date: 2004-02-20 06:26 pm (UTC)Remus is the most frequently and egregiously mischaracterized person in HP fic. I don't care what David Thewlis looks like, as long as he knocks some sense into Remus fandom.
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Date: 2004-02-24 04:45 am (UTC)One other fandom of which I hang around the periphery is PotC (no, not Passion of the Christ :P), and that seems to have a mix of antagonistic and buddy slash.
K.
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Date: 2004-02-24 10:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-02-25 11:29 am (UTC)Hmmm... I would have said that D/Hr was the biggest antagonistic het ship. But you might be right.