PS 11

[pauraque_bk]

I think I may have been called an elderly blue-nosed aunt in Chapter 10, but I shall endeavor to overlook it.

-black_dog and arclevel on rules and fairness.

-sistermagpie and black_dog on rules and authorial intent.


And sistermagpie has an analysis of Remus that branched off from the re-read discussion.


PS 11: Quidditch

The Quidditch season had begun. On Saturday, Harry would be playing in his first match after weeks of training: Gryffindor versus Slytherin. If Gryffindor won, they would move up into second place in the House Championship. (133)

The HP Lexicon has a section on Quidditch scoring which asserts that the Quidditch Cup goes to the House with the most total points, not the most wins. Someone who can actually do math will have to tell me whether this passage contradicts that theory.

It was really lucky that Harry now had Hermione as a friend. He didn't know how he'd have got through all his homework without her, what with all the last-minute Quidditch practice Wood was making them do. She had also lent him Quidditch through the Ages, which turned out to be a very interesting read. (133)

Sure, when he doesn't like her it puts him to sleep, but when she's helping him with his homework, it's an interesting read!

Snape and Filch were inside, alone. Snape was holding his robes above his knees. One of his legs was bloody and mangled. Filch was handing Snape bandages.

'Blasted thing,' Snape was saying. 'How are you supposed to keep your eyes on all three heads at once?' (134)

Why didn't Snape want to go to Madam Pomfrey? Does he not trust her? Or does he trust Filch more? I always found this quite meaningful... Snape is a very private person. Here he's allowing Filch to see him in a moment of vulnerability and frustration. No wonder he reacts the way he does when Harry barges in.

'Thanks, Seamus,' said Harry, watching Seamus pile ketchup on his sausages. (135)

In Chapter 7, eponis flagged ketchup as a possible oddity.

Ron and Hermione joined Neville, Seamus and Dean the West Ham fan up in the top row. As a surprise for Harry, they had painted a large banner on one of the sheets Scabbers had ruined. It said Potter for President and Dean, who was good at drawing, had done a large Gryffindor lion underneath. (136)

Scabbers chews Ron's sheets (97), but I find it hard to believe that they'd be beyond magical repair... oh well.

Dean being an artist is often mistaken for fanon. Admittedly, there are no other references to it, but it is here. [EDIT: Okay, I'm wrong!]

The "Potter for President" slogan is sometimes mistakenly attributed to Dean and used as evidence that he's an American. In fact, the slogan is attributed to the whole group (and I doubt that many Americans are West Ham fans). I think it's just an expression, though I'd need a Brit to tell me for sure.

Harry thought Flint looked as if he had some troll in him. (136)

Flint may not be pretty, but he isn't an idiot.

[Lee Jordan:] '[...]sent his way by Fred or George Weasley, can't tell which[...]' (137)

Lee can't tell the difference between the twins at a distance, but Harry can (138).

Once he caught sight of a flash of gold but it was just a reflection from one of the Weasleys' wristwatches[...] (138)

Gold-plated, I guess!

'So -- after that obvious and disgusting bit of cheating --'

'Jordan!' growled Professor McGonagall.

'I mean, after that open and revolting foul --'

'Jordan, I'm warning you --' (139)

Interesting that McGonagall keeps him from voicing anti-Slytherin sentiments when he's officially commentating.

'Can't have,' Hagrid said, his voice shaking. 'Can't nothing interfere with a broomstick except powerful Dark Magic -- no kid could do that to a Nimbus Two Thousand.' (140)

Assuming Hagrid knows what he's talking about (not always a safe assumption), why should this be so?

[Hermione] didn't even stop to say sorry as she knocked Professor Quirrell headfirst into the row in front. (140)

This works even better in the movie: When Snape realizes he's on fire, he jumps up and knocks Quirrell over.

'Neville, you can look!' Ron said. Neville had been sobbing into Hagrid's jacket for the last five minutes. (140)

Awww!


Past re-read posts are aqui.

Comments

[atdelphi.livejournal.com]

Why didn't Snape want to go to Madam Pomfrey? Does he not trust her? Or does he trust Filch more? I always found this quite meaningful... Snape is a very private person. Here he's allowing Filch to see him in a moment of vulnerability and frustration. No wonder he reacts the way he does when Harry barges in.

You have to know that I love this scene :-P But, slashy interpretations aside, my view of this is that Snape considers himself well above Filch - he's definitely the dominant personality in their 'relationship' and so he has less to lose by showing vulnerability of this sort around him. There's no risk of being teased or prodded with too many unwanted questions with Filch. He seems understandably more certain of Filch's loyalty and discretion than he is with others of or above his social station, who he might identify of having agendas similar to his own.

Dean being an artist is often mistaken for fanon. Admittedly, there are no other references to it, but it is here.

I've always liked this touch, as well as the other little hints we get that flesh the other Gryffindors out as having lives completely unconnected to Harry. In this vein, we also get a mention in PoA of Dean being "good with a quill" when Harry needs his permission form signed. Pretty much everyone I knew in school who could accurately forge a signature were artists :-P

The "Potter for President" slogan is sometimes mistakenly attributed to Dean and used as evidence that he's an American. In fact, the slogan is attributed to the whole group (and I doubt that many Americans are West Ham fans). I think it's just an expression, though I'd need a Brit to tell me for sure.

Not a Brit, but a Canadian - and while we have a Prime Minister as well, heads of companies and student councils and such are still called President. Also, given that in the wizarding world, the Prime Minister doesn't hold any power, 'President' might have been a term that Seamus or Neville would more naturally come up with.

Interesting that McGonagall keeps him from voicing anti-Slytherin sentiments when he's officially commentating.

One of the many reasons I like her - strict, but she can't be said to play favourites between the houses. Given the small rivalry she apparently has with Snape about the outcome of the games, I find it especially nice that we see her making sure it's fair.

Assuming Hagrid knows what he's talking about (not always a safe assumption), why should this be so?

*ponders* The first time I read this, my first assumption was that brooms are specifically spelled to be tamper-proof, so that other players or the spectators wouldn't mess about with them during a match.

'Neville, you can look!' Ron said. Neville had been sobbing into Hagrid's jacket for the last five minutes. (140)

...awww, indeed.

[jeddy83.livejournal.com]

The "Potter for President" slogan

I've always mentally attributed this to Seamus's influence, since Ireland does in fact have a president.

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

strict, but she can't be said to play favourites between the houses.

I'd have to disagree. I know I've seen specific examples listed by others - distribution of house points, her attitude toward gryffindors and slytherins in general - McG definitely prefers her own house. Understandable, especially considering the fact that she's the head of it. What this scene shows isn't that she is fair, but that her sense of sportsmanship won't allow the Official Commentator to be biased.

[misentropic.livejournal.com]

Dean being an artist is often mistaken for fanon. Admittedly, there are no other references to it, but it is here.

I think he's also referred to as being "handy with a quill" in PoA, when he offers to forge Uncle Veron's signature on the form for Harry. I can't think of any mentions besides this, though.

As for the Quidditch scoring thing, that's always sort of confused me. What I really don't get is why the Houses are given points based on their Quidditch teams' abilities. It'd be kind of a downer for more academically-oriented kids, wouldn't it? You can perform well in class and get points for good behavior, but if your Quidditch team is lousy your House will never win the Cup. That hardly seems fair to the kids who don't play, enjoy, or care about Quidditch.

[misentropic.livejournal.com]

Vernon, not Veron. *headdesk*

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

Is it explicitly stated anywhere whether or not superior exam scores can earn house points?

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

Once he caught sight of a flash of gold but it was just a reflection from one of the Weasleys' wristwatches[...] (138)
Gold-plated, I guess!


Or perhaps a family heirloom? Or, knowing what Arthur's mugglephilia is like, it could have been something he'd appropriated to tinker with, got bored with, and one of the twins snagged it. It also might have been won in a bet or outright stolen.


Wristwatches seem awfully Muggle to me. I don't have trouble with clocks or pocketwatches, but a wristwatch? Although it's no more of a stretch than a radio.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Montague and Pansy Parkinson also wear wristwatches, so apparently purebloods have no problem with them.

[stellahobbit.livejournal.com]

Snape was holding his robes above his knees. One of his legs was bloody and mangled.

For some reason, this seems to indicate to me that Snape is not one of those wizards (i.e. like some of the younger ones) that wear pants under their robes.

I know it doesn't prove anything either way, but the pants/no pants question often comes up.

[pauraque]

We know Snape wasn't wearing trousers under his robes during the Pensieve memory in OotP, so I tend to agree that no-trousers is typical for him.

[iibnf.livejournal.com]

Note: Ketchup isn't American, it's Malaysian in origin, and more or less worldwide. It's just most widely embraced in the US.

How irrelevant to the point can I get?

[nakedcelt.livejournal.com]

But the word is an American usage. We in New Zealand call it "tomato sauce". Maybe the Americanism has caught on in Britain in recent years?

[shocolate.livejournal.com]

The "Potter for President" slogan is sometimes mistakenly attributed to Dean and used as evidence that he's an American. In fact, the slogan is attributed to the whole group (and I doubt that many Americans are West Ham fans). I think it's just an expression, though I'd need a Brit to tell me for sure.

Golf clubs and cricket clubs have presidents - that was how I always read it - on the sporting theme.

[pauraque]

See, I'd never have known that.

(And hee, I like your icon.)

[nakedcelt.livejournal.com]

For the record, I agree with black_dog. I think one of the great strengths of HP is that, unlike most children's literature, its heroes aren't prefabricated rôle models.

[nakedcelt.livejournal.com]

Oh, and has it been noted that this chapter is the last time (so far) that the books show events from any PoV but Harry's?

[pauraque]

I mentioned it in Chapter 2 (where we saw Vernon's POV), but I forgot to mention it again here, so thanks! You're not quite right, though... the first chapter of GoF uses Frank Bryce's POV (although admittedly it turns out to be Harry dreaming what happened).

Although I certainly see the advantages of using different POVs at these two points (Vernon's POV is much more enlightening than infant Harry's, and it's better to keep up with Hermione's actions here than to have them explained later), there are scattered cases of slippery POV throughout the book. Things like saying "Ron saw immediately that..." and the like. POV bleedthrough is a common error of people who haven't been writing very long, or have simply never had their writing edited before. It's not hard to correct, and I think after this book she learned not to do it; I don't remember noticing similar issues in the other books.

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

Scabbers chews Ron's sheets (97), but I find it hard to believe that they'd be beyond magical repair... oh well.

I think maybe Ron isn't too good at this kind of magic. By fourth year he can barely get the lace off his dress robes. Maybe he's like Tonks, bad at the housework types of spells.

For that matter, what about all Lupin's gear.

[miranskeeper.livejournal.com]

Dean being an artist also comes up in GoF:

"...and Dean Thomas, who was very good at drawing, had put up some impressive new banners, most of which depicted Harry zooming aorund the Horntail's head on his Firebolt, though a couple showed Cedric with his head on fire." (Ch. 21, p. 365 US)

[pauraque]

You are right, I am wrong. Thanks. :)

[lycoris.livejournal.com]

Dean being an artist is often mistaken for fanon. Admittedly, there are no other references to it, but it is here.

It is. It's mentioned in GoF - Dean makes some banners, mostly of Harry defeating the Horntail but some showing Cedric with his head on fire. :)

[pauraque]

Yep, got it. See miranskeeper's comment above.

[likethemodel.livejournal.com]

Dean being an artist is often mistaken for fanon. Admittedly, there are no other references to it, but it is here.

There's another reference to it when Dean draws another banner with a lion on it. I can't recall if that is even in this novel or if it's in later ones, but it is there.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Sure, when he doesn't like her it puts him to sleep, but when she's helping him with his homework, it's an interesting read!

I think that may have less to do with liking Hermione and more to do with now actually playing Quidditch.

No wonder he reacts the way he does when Harry barges in.

Poor Snape. Harry's always getting a peek under his robes one way or another. I'll bet the first time he saw Harry he felt like he could see his (Snape's) underwear.

Flint may not be pretty,

Isn't there some reference to Goyle possibly having some troll in him? And of course Montague also looks a bit like a gorilla.

Interesting how again, despite the importance of blood being attributed to Voldemort's followers, insults about people looking like they're the product of some union with non-wizards is just so natural. I mean, is Hagrid ever described as looking like he "had some giant in him?" since he does and shouldn't be mocked for it?

Interesting that McGonagall keeps him from voicing anti-Slytherin sentiments when he's officially commentating.

McGonogall does seem to like her Quidditch played as fairly as possibly. In OotP she takes the position that whatever Malfoy says to Harry and George did not justify them beating him up, but that line of reasoning is cut off by Umbridge showing up to ban them, making them more adamant they did the right thing than ever.

I'd like to think Snape is kind of similar, though we don't see him alone with his team. The only evidence I could offer for it is that McG might not have the sort of respectful sports-rivalry she has with Snape if he were just a cheater.

Assuming Hagrid knows what he's talking about (not always a safe assumption), why should this be so?

It's that (imo) frustrating "dark magic" concept where it seems to mean "a bad guy must be doing this."

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

* <3's pauraque, no matter what the color of his nose, which is definitely not blue, anyway. And offers pancake makeup to any others who may call for it.* :)

[elsajeni.livejournal.com]

Assuming Hagrid knows what he's talking about (not always a safe assumption), why should this be so?

I figure that wizards have reasonable safety concerns about brooms, seeing as how they fly way up in the air and don't appear to have any way to stop you falling off when you're a hundred feet up, and that, at some point, it was decided that the risk of an enemy being able to tamper with something with that much potential to harm/kill its user was too great and that all brooms should come equipped with wards against magic intended to alter their flight characteristics. The same sort of wards could be used to prevent Quidditch players from casting illegal helpful enchantments on their own brooms, although I don't imagine the wizarding world would really go for that, since it seems to be totally accepted for one team to win a match solely because they can afford better brooms than the other team.

[arclevel.livejournal.com]

I don't really get the impression that McG is *that* worried about the fairness of the commentators (and I love McGonagall). She keeps him away from the more blatant insults, but this spot strikes me more that she objects to him basically insulting players than being anti-Slytherin. It's still pretty obvious throughout Lee's commentary (in every book) that he's openly rooting for Gryffindor. If she wanted fair commentary, Lee wouldn't be commentating after he's been consistently biased, and in general there should be multiple commentators so that students aren't commentating on their own house.

Of course, as a sports fan, I *like* having the commentators leaning towards my team (to a point); that's one reason it's generally better to watch on local TV than national. ;-) OTOH, this is a situation where there's supposedly no "home team," and students from both houses are sitting there. It would make more sense to at least switch up commentators, so that you'd basically be alternating whether or not the commentator was rooting for your team or not. Also, this probably has more effect on the fans than the players, but fans can affect the players sometimes.

And then we get into the issue of how Slytherin's supposed to be the big Quidditch dynasty and Gryffindor is the "underdog," but the Gryffs are winning even before Harry catches the Snitch, and I really think you lose the underdog spot when three-quarters of the fans are on your side.