Radio silence lifts.

[pauraque_bk]

Well, I'm done. For some odd reason I actually received the book at about 4pm on the 15th, which happens to be the time it was supposed to be released in the UK. Everybody didn't have that, did they?

I read about two thirds of it last night, and polished it off just now. It didn't feel very long to me. Wasn't, of course, not compared to OotP.

So. *steeples fingers together*

I had a theory that the odd-numbered HP books are quite good, and the even-numbered ones can be done without. I don't think my theory has been disproven.

There were parts of this book that I liked, and lengthy stretches of it that had me either bored silly or squirming uncomfortably. I remember remarking that I knew we'd have some relationship crap in this book, but I held out hope that we wouldn't have to sit through too much of it. Well, we did. I'm sure a certain contingent was thrilled to death -- I was not. Primary problem, I'd say, was that I didn't believe Harry's interest in Ginny for a split second. It came out of flipping nowhere, and there was barely any attempt to make us really *feel* that he felt something for her. Cho was a less likable character, but I *bought* that Harry had a crush on her. More on that in a minute.

You guys know Tonks is my least favorite character, right? And Remus/Tonks my least favorite ship? Yyyyyyeah. Felt a bit slapped in the face by that.

So, obviously I wasn't going to like any of that, that's just me. Other primary problem: What was with the way this book was written? I've never felt more detached from Harry's experience. A few chapters in, I actually thought she was trying to show us how numb Harry was, numb from grief that... well... got a few sentences of lip service, I guess. We clearly miss Sirius more than Harry does, and that surprised the hell out of me. OotP was far more emotionally engaging.

Let's see, what else. I was fairly sure pretty early that Snape was the HBP. The only thing that gave me pause was Hermione's repeated comments that the handwriting looked girly, when Harry's remarked on Snape's handwriting several times in the past and never mentioned any such thing. Let it pass, I guess.

Snape's supposed to be evil then, is he. I've gone on so many times about how utterly *stupid* I thought that outcome would be that it hardly bears repeating. Well, we've got one more book left, maybe something else is going on there.

Well, I said there were parts that I liked. Gotta say I was into the Life of Riddle. I love that stuff. (aithopa got her wish!) Also, hey, check it out, Draco got to do stuff. About time.

Heh, Peter. Always stay sassy! You're not his servant! Now pour me another drink. I don't know, maybe I was deluding myself, but I really did think he'd have more to do in this book. Throw him a bone, man.

Overall... yeah, no, not really working for me. I was pretty excited in the first few chapters, because it seemed like things were in motion, Draco was kicking ass and taking names, Tony Blair [ETA: Er, John Major?] was there, there was a Slytherin who wasn't unremittingly evil... then, I dunno. Got bogged down. So little going on that made any kind of difference. Like the middle of GoF! When I realized I was three-fourths done, I was like... so, shit's going to *happen* soon, yeah?

Luckily, the last book of the series is odd-numbered.

And now I go to see what the rest of you thought.


ETA 1:49am

I have to say I'm a little stunned that anyone's calling this a brilliantly-written new favorite. I'm also terribly envious. I want to feel squeeful too, dammit. :P


Oh, I almost forgot. Snape Manor? DENIED! *snaps*


ETA 2:07am

The first person on my flist to finish the book appears to have been lycoris. Just a fun fact to know and tell. You read fast, my dear. :)



ETA 2:31am

Okay. Can't carry on like this. Death of a thousand spoiler cuts. Sleep is necessarzzzzzzzzzzzz

Comments

[florahart]

Detached? You mean, like, the first two chapters being practically the only thing we've ever seen that was not filtered through Harry at all?

[pauraque]

No, I mean even when we were in Harry's POV, I didn't feel engaged with what he was thinking or feeling.

[dphearson.livejournal.com]

Snape&Peter= The Odd Couple. Snape is Oscar, Peter is Felix.

Excellent!

[pauraque]

Ha! Cool. :D

*hums the theme song*

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

I was totally with Life of Riddle (except for the Mighty Morfin Purebloods), completely with my Tom/Albus fangirlish heart.

I really wanted to see more of the non-Harry POV that was in the first two chapters. Argh.

[misentropic.livejournal.com]

What was with the way this book was written? I've never felt more detached from Harry's experience. A few chapters in, I actually thought she was trying to show us how numb Harry was, numb from grief that... well... got a few sentences of lip service, I guess. We clearly miss Sirius more than Harry does, and that surprised the hell out of me. OotP was far more emotionally engaging.

...Wow, that's exactly it. You just hit the nail on the head about why this one bugged me. In all the previous books the reader is drawn in so they can't help but be emotionally involved, but this one was kind of... flat. The only emotional investment I had was in the characters, and that investment was mostly from the previous books. I had to make an effort to notice and care about things.

Essentially, I agree with you completely. Something here just wasn't right.

[pauraque]

Yep, that's it. I had an intense preexisting emotional investment in these characters, and I can't imagine how dull it would have been if I didn't.

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

I absolutely agree there was "too much relationship stuff." I wouldn't go as far as the people on the Remus/Sirius lists who're up in arms about all the over "de-gaying" of characters (Remus potentially being with Tonks for the time being doesn't necessarily "turn him straight"), but in many cases, there was *no* need for the coupling. Oh, and by the way...I don't dislike Tonks: I just thought the whole Remus/Tonks thing in HBP was bizarre; even with a an unintentional and vague spoiler that Remus/Tonks was going to be canon, I *still* couldn't see their relationship as real in the book.

As far as emotionally engaging, well...you know I'm a Snape gal, so this book *was* emotional for me (I also like Dumbledore). I had a lot of comments about what I thought was going on with Snape in HBP, but if you don't want to wade through a half-dozen long posts about it, this other person's essay says a *lot* of what I was seeing in the book. So, no...I don't think Snape is evil, despite how he appeared (not that this makes me feel any better about things, because all my WIP's are dead in the water as of this book.)

::sigh::

[pauraque]

It wasn't the events that were unemotional for me, but the way they were presented.

Take OotP -- at the start of the book, I wouldn't have said I'd be upset at Sirius dying. When he actually did die, I was upset. Not by the concept of that character kicking the bucket, but by the immense pain and loss and anger that came through in the way Harry was written.

At the start of HBP, I would have guessed a scene where Snape killed Dumbledore would have me on the edge of my seat, gasping for breath. When it actually happened, I wasn't nearly that affected.

[thecoldacre.livejournal.com]

We clearly miss Sirius more than Harry does, and that surprised the hell out of me.

I completely agree. The lack of grief for Sirius really surprised me.

I also agree about Harry's feelings for Ginny coming out of left field. And don't get me started on Remus, Tonks, and the Love That Has No Backstory.

I got the impression that there was huge preassure to keep this one short, and as a result the backstory, and the chance for the reader to become emotionally involved, suffered greatly.

[pauraque]

I wonder if you're right, because I can't really think why else she would have made the book so short. We know how she likes to go on about things -- sometimes it's detrimental, but I think it's also part of the charm of her work, and a large part of the reason she's inspired such a broad fandom. She likes details. She takes the time to follow up on minor characters and plot threads. Only this time -- she didn't.

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about the odd emotional flatness, though it didn't take all that much away for me -- I still liked the book a lot. I'm wondering if it might just be a way of depicting Harry as a little bit numb. Early on in the book he seemed more noncomittal, less assertive and intense, than his OOTP self, and we only got one single incident of capslock-Harry. I felt as I was reading that this was closer to an earlier Harry, with his feelings contained or even dissociated.

Poor Peter. I thought of you. He deserves better!

[pauraque]

Heh, I certainly got my wish for my Peter characterization not be jossed... Perhaps I should be more careful what I wish for!

[gelliaclodiana]

I must admit that I'm in the "huzzah! new favorite!" camp, but you're welcome to exclude my opinion as not that of a serious fan, because really, I'm not.

Oh, I almost forgot. Snape Manor? DENIED! *snaps*

Is it sad that I was very, very pleased about that. A thousand imagined backgrounds for Snape go crashing to the floor...

[muridae-x.livejournal.com]

I confess that that was one of my many moments of glee throughout the reading process. There's just something about the fixation with Manors in general that pushes my buttons. Especially if they're named after the family rather than the village that they're located in. It's just too groanworthy a cliche.

Plus, that chip on Snape's shoulder and the way that he tries too hard in the youthful flashbacks that we've seen of him doesn't suggest that background to me at all. Neither the rich nor the newly poor have that little self-confidence. I wouldn't have placed him as a Muggleborn, but somehow I'm not at all surprised to find him a half-blood of indeterminate means. It seems the most fitting, somehow.

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

I agree completely. I wasn't bothered too much, though. It could have been great. It could have been horrible. Instead, it was cheesy and pretty lame. It seems clear to me that Rowling is sick of writing them. She's got kids, she's got money; at this point she's just getting the story out. Note all the spelling and grammatical errors. They just want to get it published, get it done. She'll let the fanfic writers do the delicate writing.

A few points.

1. Snape is not evil. Duh. It's the same story line she's had since book 1. Dumbledore knew Snape had vowed to kill him and he ok'd it. The only thing that puzzles me is Snape consenting before he could consult Big D. But the story was so cheesy in general, I'm not too concerned with nitpicking.

2. Lupin's banging Tonks out of pity. The girl's insane.

3. Them not recognizing Snape's handwriting threw me off, too. Snape in general was insanely adorable and sexy, though. SNAPE SNAPE SNAPE SNAPE SNAPE!!!!!! :}

[pauraque]

I don't think he's evil either, what annoyed me was how stupid it is that she's still trying to lead us down that path. As you say, it's the same damn trick she's been pulling since Book 1. And it's *old*.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I don't think Snape is evil--Dumbledore made him kill him, I'm pretty confident.

The Shipping was really painful, which was unfortunate given that of course I was loving the Draco storyline. Ginny was even less likeable to me in this book than OotP, which I literally did not think was possible, but their relationship, which I'd been expecting for books now, was so fake I was surprised. Remus/Tonks was not only stuck on but disappointed me, because I'd thought that perhaps the fact that Tonks and Draco kept being compared was supposed to indicate a curse on the family somehow. Instead it seemed to just be that they both looked sick under stress...though somehow Tonks is more obvious about it.

On the whole, actually, I still really don't like the way women are presented in the series. They seem truly stupid about men, and only wise up when their children need to be sacrificed for.

[pauraque]

Draco stole the book. His storyline was certainly the most engaging to me, and I wasn't a big fan of him to start with.

I was expecting that something bigger would be up with Tonks. Perhaps a family curse, as you say, or guilt over Sirius, as Hermione says... God, what a huge let-down. I feel like if I *were* a Tonks fan, I would be pissed that she'd been given such a lame-ass storyline.

[tangledaria.livejournal.com]

See, I loved the book. I disliked OotP, and this book was quirky and fun and I loved it. But, I can see where you're coming from, and different strokes for different folks and all that.

I mostly commented here to say that this:

Oh, I almost forgot. Snape Manor? DENIED! *snaps*

Has totally made my weekend. *G*

[pauraque]

And I loved OotP! Different strokes, indeed.

[lolaraincoat.livejournal.com]

Oh, I almost forgot. Snape Manor? DENIED! *snaps*

That might be my favorite thing about the book. Well, that and the Riddle backstory. I love that it's not the rich Riddle family who are magical, and that the wizard side of Voldemort's ancestry is straight out of Faulkner. You might almost think that JKR inverted a lot of fanfiction cliche on purpose.

[pauraque]

I wouldn't be that surprised if she did in some cases, given that she's clearly been hanging out in fandom a lot. Too much for her own good, if you ask me.

[gmth.livejournal.com]

I'm of the "this book was my favorite" camp, but not because it was brilliantly written. It still had all of JKR's bad writing habits in it. But the plot! My god, the PLOT! I'm still buzzed.

[pauraque]

I thought OotP was significantly better-written. Probably the best-written of all of them, on a technical level. More emotionally immediate, more interesting and relevant descriptions, better dialogue.

I actually liked the plot too -- the main plot. Horcruxes. Tom. Dumbledore. I would have much preferred to read a book that was primarily *about* that, instead of romances I cared nothing about, and newly introduced characters who went nowhere.

[amanuensis1.livejournal.com]

Your lack of enthusiasm helps. I'm expecting to warm to it as I re-read, but my expectations as I read--I thought there were so many red herrings that turned out to be just the way things were, not red herrings, that I ended up writing this far more complex story in my head as I read and was shocked when it ended the way it did.

When I realized I was three-fourths done, I was like... so, shit's going to *happen* soon, yeah?

God, yes. I kept waiting for more of the characters we know, and for some resolution over Sirius, you know?

And I'm reeling that people think Snape's motives were AMBIGUOUS. Jeezus. It's so obvious I can't believe it wasn't the ending of Book 6. Can't believe it.


(Also, may I use the phrase "Death of a thousand lj-cuts" ? I love it.)

[pauraque]

I read your initial post about it, and thought "Thank god, I'm not the only one who's pissed about this book".

(Of course you may, my dear. *g*)

[turangaleela.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank god. I'm not alone. I was horribly disappointed when I put it down and you've deftly pinpointed one of the many reasons why. It *is* emotionally flat. Grief and anger have disappeared in the two weeks after the end of term. I think there was Thorazine in the Dursley's water. Harry was astonishingly eager to please Dumbledore after OotP. I really missed the lack of a willingness to challenge authority, demand answers, and tell AD when to get off.

As for Tonks - people are being tortured to death, massacred, and her job is to find the people who did it but she's falling apart while pining for Remus. WTF?

Other than the 7 Horcruxes, unconfirmed except in a decades old conversation, Harry hasn't learned anything in this book to improve his odds against Voldemort. Even if he destroys the other Horcruxes, V will eat him and the Ministry alive. In fact, for all of the losses they suffer, they can't inflict any deaths on the enemy.

Again, I'm just glad to hear someone else doesn't think that this was a tour-de-force.

[pauraque]

It's true that Harry didn't learn all that much, and he didn't get to *do* much either.

He tried to engage with Draco's (very interesting) storyline, but was consistently thwarted -- never had a chance at influencing it, never got anyone to believe him it was important. Dumbledore literally paralyzed him at the end, but Harry had been useless in that plot thread for the entire book.

I doubt I'd've liked the romance plots no matter how they were written, but Harry didn't really do much actively in that arena either. He doesn't have to do anything to win Ginny. Then he gets her, and there's nothing to do -- no conflict, no change in him. Then he gives her up, and neither of them seems terribly put out about it. Woo, exciting.

I really enjoyed the Tom flashbacks, but they're *only* flashbacks. Harry receiving information passively. Yes, he did get the memory from Slughorn... but in a very odd way, almost brainwashed by the luck potion (or so it would seem). I appreciated the fact that Harry has already destroyed one of the Horcruxes -- it shows that there's progress being made, Harry's various adventures have actually amounted to something. But that was way back in CoS! What's he doing *now*?

[thepiratequeen.livejournal.com]

I actually breathed a huge sigh of relief reading this. I liked it but it was not my favorite by far. I felt so much more connected to everything going on in OOTP, a book that many people still seem to have big problems with.

I liked HBP. I liked it alot but it hasn't filled me with the fervor that OOTP did.

[pauraque]

idlerat has mentioned that a lot of the people who loved HBP seemed to be the same ones who disliked OotP, and I can understand that. They're very different books.

[lycoris.livejournal.com]

*bows modestly to the adoring crowds* Thank you, thank you. And it runs in the family - give or take an hour, my sister and I both read OotP in the same day.

I am joining you some more in the loff of Wormtail because his brief apperence in this book had be squealing with glee. And he'll kick ass in book seven. He HAS to. JKR is SAVING him like she saved Draco. *nods*

But I don't believe for three seconds that Snape is evil. Well, depending on the defition of evil I guess. There was so much going on in the background there between Snape and Dumbledore. Harry thinks he knows but he knows NOTHING here - we haven't scratched the surface. Snape's look of loathing when he killed Dumbledore wasn't directed at Dumbledore - it was directed at himself. I just do not see pure-always-evil!Snape. When I am less tired, I have a ramble about this. :)

[pauraque]

JKR is SAVING him like she saved Draco.

You sure know how to get a boy's hopes up. ;)

[tarnationawaits.livejournal.com]

I think you said just about everything I was thinking but couldn't really articulate. It's relieving in a bittersweet way to know I'm not the only one who was a bit disappointed and wishes for mutual squeeage.

I think this is the first book where I really REALLY wished it wasn't written from Harry's POV. The characters I am most interested in barely got airtime because they were off actually doing things instead of just watching teenage hormones cause immature behavior for 3/4 of the book. Not that it wouldn't have been ok in moderation, but I just felt like a huge chunk of the book was a soap opera with the occasional backstory info (which I am very thankful for) thrown in. Ah well, there's always book 7...

[pauraque]

Yeah. It does seem that most of my flist was pretty satisfied with the book, but we're definitely not the only ones who were disappointed.

[starpaint.livejournal.com]

The most unrelated comment ever:

It's actually not John Major, because he succeeded Thatcher and the HP!PM mentions a male antecedent. I pouted when I read that.

On a more related note - the pacing threw me off quite a bit. It was pretty engaging, but about 50 pages from the end, I realized that we hadn't heard from Voldemort all book, that something had to happen, and that there wasn't much room to do it in. The climax was excellent and a hundred times better than OotP's, but still very weird...

She could have skipped Harry's extremely obvious emotional blathering and got on with it faster. Heh. Liked it, though!

And, er, yeah. Hi again, too.

[pauraque]

I was annoyed when I realized that she'd given her Prime Minister a male predecessor, because it wouldn't have cost her anything to make it a female, and it would have been positively adorable.

[nakedcelt.livejournal.com]

I've been posting this everywhere, but...

From GoF:

"Severus... you know what I must ask you to do."

[pauraque]

Then you think they were planning Dumbledore's death that early, rather than after Dumbledore sustained his hand injury? Why would they do that?

[aithopa.livejournal.com]

I had a theory that the odd-numbered HP books are quite good, and the even-numbered ones can be done without.

The opposite of ST movies! ;D

I dunno, it's weird, because I agree with you, and yet I don't feel disappointed and I rather liked the book. Well, I mean, I don't dislike it, but I don't love it madly either - I don't have the "grrrargh" feeling I had at OotP(or GoF), but neither do I have the extreme squee that came with certain parts of OotP. Maybe if I had been REALLY HYPED then I would have felt let down, but my expectations were low. *shrug*

[pauraque]

I was REALLY HYPED, so maybe that was part of it. For OotP, I was excited but my expectations weren't extremely high, because I didn't think GoF was exactly hot shit.