PoA 3

[pauraque_bk]

I'm really pleased with the quality of the discussion this read-through has generated so far. If you haven't already, you might want to check out conversations on the relative merits of the books and why people like PoA so much in Chapter 1, and on Dursley family dynamics and readers' impressions of antagonistic characters in Chapter 2.

If ever you have something to say about my commentary or about the chapter in general, speak up! Add! Quibble! Pontificate!

*

PoA 3: The Knight Bus

He was stranded, quite alone, in the dark Muggle world[...] (29)

One of several suggestions that the Muggle world is dangerous, foreign, and frightening. Harry is not just afraid of encountering the authorities, but the "Muggle police" (30), even though it's wizard law he's broken. He sees himself as fully wizard by this point.

Welcome to the Knight Bus, emergency transport for the stranded witch or wizard[...] (30)

Okay, this whole Knight Bus concept. It's illegal for private citizens to own magical cars, and there's no suggestion that wizards use regular vehicles for transport -- indeed, they shun Muggle technology. So why a bus? And why just for emergencies?

[EDIT: In the next couple of chapters, "Ministry cars" are sent to pick up the Weasleys -- but again, these are owned by the government and only for emergencies.]

'Woss your name?' Stan persisted.
'Neville Longbottom,' said Harry, saying the first name that came into his head. (31)

Mm, symbolic goodness. The Harry=Neville connection is woven deeply into the series. They were each potentially the child of the prophecy, and each saw their parents destroyed by Voldemort (indirectly in Neville's case). I also notice that Neville sometimes serves to play out Harry's fears: Harry fears that he's incapable, he fears being the runt who gets picked on. By OotP, Harry is directly helping Neville overcome his inadequacies -- an external parallel to Harry's battle against his own fears.

Of course, in PoA Neville is also overtly compared to Peter, as we'll see later on.

It also strikes me that no one ever recognizes Harry by his face -- they have to see his scar. You'd think there would have been pictures of him in the paper by this time, given the extraordinary events of the past two years.

Harry had never seen a vampire, but he had seen pictures of them in his Defence Against the Dark Arts classes, and Black, with his waxy white skin, looked just like one. (34)

More description of Sirius in terms we normally associate with Snape. Also, an interesting reversal -- Sirius is pursued by creatures who suck out his essence as vampires would.

'If he weren't [mad] when he went to Azkaban, he will be now,' said Ern in his slow voice. (35)

Wizards appear to have no concept of cruel and unusual punishment, or even that driving criminals insane and then releasing them (Hagrid was held for only two months) is a foolish idea.

Tom clicked his fingers, a fire burst into life in the grate, and he bowed himself out of the room. (37)

Wandless, wordless magic, performed by an innkeeper.

Oh, you've heard -- well, no, [they haven't caught Black] yet, but it's only a matter of time. The Azkaban guards have never yet failed ... and they are angrier than I've ever seen them. (40)

This is an odd way for Fudge to put it, if no one has ever escaped from Azkaban before. Perhaps the Dementors are also sent to collect suspects who haven't been arrested yet.

Comments

[exbentley]

I think the Knight Bus might be a ploy on JKRs point... an ideal world, in terms of air pollution... noiseless, pollutionless brooms or walking, no cars, and even emergency transport is 'public'. Also, wizards haven't developed enough technology (involving motors, plugs, electricity, etc) to be able to properly handle, let alone design, a car. Magical cars are restricted due to the fact that Muggles could steal them and use them, etc, but a non-magical muggle car probably wouldn't be... it's just that no witch or wizard is seemingly competent enough with driving to own one.

Wandless, wordless magic, performed by an innkeeper.

he did have to 'click' though, and it is his inn - I doubt Harry, or anyone else, could have clicked to alight the fireplace. Perhaps there's a charm (which he did with his wand) already on it, enabling the fire to spark up when he snaps his fingers in its direction.

Right, I think I need a PoA icon for this. :>

[nicolthewhore.livejournal.com]

it's just that no witch or wizard is seemingly competent enough with driving to own one.

actually, ernie drives pretty much like your average, friendly english bus driver. caesia390 will concur with me on this one. :) riding at the top of double deckers has left me close to hyperventilating from fear a couple of memorable times.
***
Perhaps there's a charm (which he did with his wand) already on it, enabling the fire to spark up when he snaps his fingers in its direction.

kind of like clap-on lights.
***
all this makes me really curious as to how much muggle influence there *actually* is in the wizarding world. while spelling muggle artifacts seems to be illegal, it seems like the main concern with that is playing tricks on muggles, like those wonderful regurgitating toilets mentioned in one book. it seems *to me* that the majority of wizarding culture is some copy of modern muggle culture -- i did a little research into it, because i was concerned for what seemed at first to be a complete *lack* of culture, except for one or two things. but upon digging deeper, there's brilliant things like the knight bus, the daily prophet (a mirror to england's daily mail), and the Wireless Wizards Network (kinda like radio without the actual device). so perhaps they just take ideas they like (like clap-on lights) and then repeat them with magic, cuz its easier for them. the more i think about it, it seems like hogwarts is unusual in its lack of muggle devices -- mainly because they don't function there, but it could also be because wizards need to thoroughly learn to use their powers on a daily basis, and they have relatively little time to do that before they are thrown out into the "real" world. so discouraging use of convenient devices and forcing the young wizard to rely on his/her self seems like a pretty efficient way of doing that.

could also impact the psychology of the wizarding world, but i'm leaving that up to discussion to go write porn. >:)

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

caesia390 will concur

Roger that. I did not understand the Knightbus until I lived in England. I think it is very much a parody of British public transportation that garners immediate recognition with British audiences. British bus drivers own the road. Things like other vehicles, traffic laws, gravity... not important. So I read the KB as purely comedic, though, knowing JKR, it probably holds some deeper significance in terms of Wizard-Muggle relations...

It's most likely a recent development, perhaps especially for Wizards stranded in the Muggle world. Therefore if a muggle notices it, however briefly, it wouldn't be as jarring as... I dunno, a dragon, or whatever they might have used before. Or it could just be an indication of the way wizards borrow from the muggle world, perhaps more than they realise or would like to admit.

[muridae-x.livejournal.com]

Strictly speaking, the Knight Bus has an exact parallel in the Night Bus system that run throughout the night (what else?) in London. (And probably other big cities too, although generally speaking our public transport system sucks muchly if you're out in the wilds, when you'll only get a bus into the next town every other Wednesday.)

These are there for a strictly practical purpose: the London Underground shuts between about 1-5am for essential maintenance/cleaning (de-fluffing the tracks and suchlike), so the bus system, which covers all the major arterial routes out from the centre of the city, is pretty much the only way to get home if you roll out of a night club at 3am, unless you're a squillionnaire and can spring for a taxi. Which will object if you want to go south of the river anyway.

So there are buses going (more or less) your way every hour or half-hour, and they'll get you (more or less) where you want to go. They'll be red, not purple (but purple's a more wizardly colour!), and they won't offer you a bed or a toothbrush, but I believe very strongly that the name of the bus is deliberate, and that's what it's apeing. Oh, and they're all request-stop only. If you want to get on, you have to put out your hand when you're at the stop to signal the driver. (Falling into the road because you've just seen a giant dog isn't recommended practice, however.)

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

Why didn't I know about this last time I was in London?????????

>_<

I could have stayed for the end of the Bowie concert!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/woe]

[pauraque]

You raise some good points here. One thing that troubles me about the WW is precisely that it's so *similar* to the Muggle world -- small and hidden, but parallel. It makes you ask yourself, what's the point? What's so great about being a wizard, if you just end up living basically the same life as a Muggle?

Real magic-users (or people believed by their society to have magic) serve an important purpose in their culture. They help "Muggles" with things they couldn't ordinarily do. Magic-users are valued members of most societies who believe in them. Western European cultures are an exception -- fear of magic drove us to hate and ostracize wizards.

I really hope that JKR is heading for a resolution that suggests Muggles and wizards will reintegrate. Her wizard society is really unsatisfying and troubling in many ways, both to me as a reader, and I think to the characters who inhabit it. The way they copy Muggle culture suggests to me that they want their old place in society back -- they were driven out, and deep down, they want back in.

[prillalar]

One of several suggestions that the Muggle world is dangerous, foreign, and frightening.

This sets up my favourite part of OotP quite nicely. Harry is, as you note, fully wizard quite early on. When the Order arrives to liberate him from the Dursleys in OotP, Harry feels like now he's going home, things are going to be fine. And then -- they're not. Things in the wizarding world are pretty much as bad for him, if not *worse*, than in the Muggle world. It shakes things up a lot.

I do find it kind of creepy the way other Muggle-borns, like Hermione, are also so swiftly assimilated. Harry has his dreadful homelife to make him more receptive to the WW. But even with Hermione it feels not like going away to school, but like joining a cult, where you renounce your former life to a large degree.

Wandless, wordless magic, performed by an innkeeper.

Probably every room is fitted with The Clapper. *g*

[marksykins.livejournal.com]

Probably every room is fitted with The Clapper.

Damn. Was going to say the same thing. Heh.

[pauraque]

Things in the wizarding world are pretty much as bad for him, if not *worse*, than in the Muggle world.

Yes, with the hindsight from OotP, this chapter does seem particularly ominous. Harry has unwittingly made himself very vulnerable, seeing the WW as a safe harbor. Here he is calmly having tea with Fudge, childishly asking him to sign his permission form... never guessing that Fudge will prove an enemy.

I do find it kind of creepy the way other Muggle-borns, like Hermione, are also so swiftly assimilated. Harry has his dreadful homelife to make him more receptive to the WW. But even with Hermione it feels not like going away to school, but like joining a cult, where you renounce your former life to a large degree.

Yes... It would play differently if any of the Muggleborn children mentioned missing their family and looking forward to seeing them, even in passing. It seems that there's heavy social pressure not to voice such feelings, and that does appear cultish at time. "What are you talking about? We LOVE Hogwarts... Why would we want to LEAVE Hogwarts..."

[dphearson.livejournal.com]

Yes... It would play differently if any of the Muggleborn children mentioned missing their family and looking forward to seeing them, even in passing. It seems that there's heavy social pressure not to voice such feelings, and that does appear cultish at time. "What are you talking about? We LOVE Hogwarts... Why would we want to LEAVE Hogwarts..."

Here, drink this Kool-Aid(tm). It will be just fine.

Or is that Butterbeer?

[marksykins.livejournal.com]

First, your mood just cracked me up.

Second, I'm far more comfortable with Harry = Neville comparisons than Peter = Neville because, other than looks when Peter is young, I don't feel they have a lot in common. Neville and Harry are paralleled in a lot of the same ways Draco and Harry are; they're both his opposite, though for different reasons. I guess it's not so much Harry = Neville as Harry could have been Neville, had a few things changed here and there. Harry could have been the klutz, the nobody, the one the prophecy's NOT about, etc.

Of course, the other valid (*cough*) interpretation is that he says Neville's name because, even at this young age, Harry is obviously in love. *nods*

[nicolthewhore.livejournal.com]

i think one of the main reasons there are peter = neville ideas floating around is cuz in the first book, neville *dared* to stand up against the Terrible Trio and insist that they not break school rules (so they promptly freeze him, which i'm sure is what james et al would have done to peter had peter dared speak out against them ... well, before he blew up several muggles).

also, neville kind of makes up the fourth cog in the Terrible Trio, much as peter did with the marauders. peter never seemed to really belong to the group, and neither does neville. of course, neville isn't really a part of the harry-ron-hermione thing, he just spends time with them occasionally, while peter was at least nominally part of the marauders.

and i really don't think neville = peter after OoTP, because he was so ridiculously awesome and brave and stuff. neville has got major guts, and while i think its possible that he could have turned out like peter had things gone differently, i don't think he'll end up betraying his friends.

and THEN its always arguable to what extent peter betrayed his friends and to what extent he was acting on his self-preservation instinct (which i find very difficult to equate to betrayal. hah, i would totally be in slytherin).

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

I think the greatest thing about Peter=Neville comparisons is that they ultimately underscore the contrast between the two. As you pointed out, Peter is a marauder the way Neville isn't part of the trio. Peter's betrayal comes from within, while with Neville, I can see him getting closer to the group as war starts and they realise they have the same goals, especially if neville has some part to play in the prophecy. Peter is filled with contradictory emotions of worship and resentment (leeway for interpretation), while neville seems to be an all around cool guy, focusing on battling his own insecurities rather than blaming them on anyone else.

And as for peter and betrayal... they were such a bunch of bastards, the mere fact that he can betray them justifies it... They're so clever; they should have known better. It's like finally getting the one-up on them. ...Would be one reason. I feel that, in Peter's own mind, things would not have been nearly so clear-cut. Self-preservation also, doubtless, played apart... at least in the way Peter jsutified it to himself. Especially since the Order was getting its ass kicked by the DEs at the time.

[dphearson.livejournal.com]

And as for peter and betrayal... they were such a bunch of bastards, the mere fact that he can betray them justifies it... They're so clever; they should have known better. It's like finally getting the one-up on them. ...Would be one reason.

Ouch. Not that I disagree, but really, ouch.

[pauraque]

Peter is a marauder the way Neville isn't part of the trio

Yet, ironically, the Trio are much nicer to Neville than MPP were to Peter. They don't *include* Neville, but they aren't rude to him -- they support him when it comes down to it. "You're worth twelve of [Draco]" -- can you imagine Sirius or James saying that to Peter?

Neville attempts to "betray" the Trio in PS/SS because their actions will hurt Gryffindor, and he doesn't want to see that happen. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with his feelings towards the Trio (who, to their credit, don't hold a grudge against Neville for trying to stop them).

To my mind, Neville differs fundamentally from Peter in that he has a functioning moral compass. He doesn't depend on outside personalities to tell him what's right; he does what he *knows* to be right.

[nicolthewhore.livejournal.com]

"functioning moral compass." brilliant. it fits perfectly. and here i've been scraping through my vocabulary trying to explain how i feel about the difference between neville and peter, and you say it all in like two sentences. heh.

[glitterdemon.livejournal.com]

Hope you don't mind me systematically spamming your journal. ;)

Yet, ironically, the Trio are much nicer to Neville than MPP were to Peter. They don't *include* Neville, but they aren't rude to him -- they support him when it comes down to it. "You're worth twelve of [Draco]" -- can you imagine Sirius or James saying that to Peter?

I have a big problem with this. Sirius and James were bastards, yes. But if there is one thing we know about them (well, especially Sirius), it's that they were loyal to a fault to their own inner circle. I won't pretend it always served them well, considering Sirius could really take it to an unhealthy extreme, but it existed. I think a lot of this very prevalent perception regarding Peter's relationship to the other Marauders is colored by fanon, because while they do make a few derisive comments towards him in the Pensieve flashback, there are many things about Peter in that same passage that make me just as ill as James' and Sirius' actions. It's a great mistake to think of Peter as the innocent victim here ('oh, if only his friends had been nicer to him!'), and, as others have pointed out, Peter and Neville actually have very little in common at the same age. He's not worth ten of Draco; Peter and Draco play in the same sandbox. So the question is almost irrelevant to me; except, perhaps, to point out that while we never heard them say anything like "You're worth twelve of [Draco]," Sirius did say that they would have died for him.

[pauraque]

It's a great mistake to think of Peter as the innocent victim here

I didn't say that, and I don't think it. I quite agree that Peter's behavior is nasty in the flashback scene. He fawns pathetically over James and watches eagerly as Snape is tormented.

Sirius did say that they would have died for him.

Sirius said that, but I tend not to believe it -- it reads to me like an exaggeration born of murderous rage. But even if it is true, neither that nor young!Peter's behavior change the fact that Peter's friends didn't treat him well in everyday interactions, and I do think those interactions are valid evidence in analyzing Peter's possible motivations.

You may be interested in a recent post by lycoris that covers some of this material.

[chresimos.livejournal.com]

You know, I like your comment, but this is only a tangent. Who exactly does Neville hang out with all day? He's not close to the trio, he's not close to Seamus and Dean it seems, and he doesn't spend time with the Gryffindor girls. What does he do? Poor kid.

Also. Tom is so TomRiddlewhodidn'tgoevilinanalternateuniverseandcamebackthroughadimensionalportal!

[pauraque]

I posed the same question in Chapter 8, but no one seemed to have an answer.

[pauraque]

I guess it's not so much Harry = Neville as Harry could have been Neville, had a few things changed here and there. Harry could have been the klutz, the nobody, the one the prophecy's NOT about, etc.

Yes, exactly. When I say Harry=Neville, it's shorthand for that.

Of course, the other valid (*cough*) interpretation is that he says Neville's name because, even at this young age, Harry is obviously in love. *nods*

Goes without saying. Hem, hem.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

Damn... I would have used my "not so grippy" icon if my membership wasn't up. *snif*

Re-reading the book steeped in shippy-ness, I caught that Neville is the first name that comes to Harry's mind. In the earlier books, Harry is always seeming to try to not catch Neville's eye in Potions (for a partner) and Neville's clumsiness/forgetfulness is a constant within the pages.

Also, can dementors truly get angry, as Fudge says? If they care so little for human life (in GoF, with Crouch Jr and his mother), are they capable of anger over failure or even inadequacy?

[nicolthewhore.livejournal.com]

dementors = ring wraiths. ;) so yes.

[pauraque]

With the Dementors, it's hard to say. We don't really know what makes them tick. Maybe it'll be clearer when I get to re-reading what Lupin has to say about them.

It's so hard not to read ahead!

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

Tom = Aberforth. >:}

[nicolthewhore.livejournal.com]

duh.

...of course, if ron = dumbledore (i strongly suspect its true), and tom = aberforth, which weasley is aberforth?

the Remaining Twin?

percy?

...ginny?!

[caesia390.livejournal.com]

...ginny?!

cue dramtic violins

[pauraque]

Actually, I was going to say Tom=Voldemort, but okay. :)

[marksykins.livejournal.com]

Tom=Voldemort?! What a silly theory! ;)

[pauraque]

Ridiculous!

[asphodeline.livejournal.com]

I can see I will need to make extra time to read your LJ comments now!
It's been pretty much said earlier but I'd agree with comments re Knight Bus. I always felt JKR was having fun with our public transport system and living in Scotland it's quite possible that she has also endured the overnight bus links between Scotland and London! When I first read about the bus I giggled for ages afterwards. They usually leave from very strange places very late at night and hurtle through the countryside at an alarming speed. From my student days I remember stopping off at the wierdest of places to pick people up.
I think it's interesting that Harry used Neville's name. I did wonder if, not knowing Neville so well at this stage, he thought it was a straightforward name to hide behind. As we now know, the Longbottoms were/are quite well known.
..and the fire lighting! It's a bit of a houself thing to do, that, although I thoroughly believe in wandless magic.

[pauraque]

I did wonder if, not knowing Neville so well at this stage, he thought it was a straightforward name to hide behind.

Ah, true. As usual, Neville is underestimated.

[wolfie-thu.livejournal.com]

You'd think there would have been pictures of him in the paper by this time, given the extraordinary events of the past two years.

Perhaps Dumbledore has something to do with this?

[pauraque]

If so, then something changes by GoF, where Harry does appear in the papers quite a bit. Maybe Dumbledore thinks he's old enough to handle it -- or just can't hold the media off anymore.

[marksykins.livejournal.com]

Or because he's participating in such a public event. From what we can see, Dumbledore didn't want, nor expect, Harry to be involved in something that was designed to be a media spectacle from the get-go. So, yes, I think Dumbledore not being able to hold off the media has something to do with it.

Petunia/Peter!!!!

[maidenjedi]

I have to bookmark this and read it later, but I also needed to point you toward a little Petunia/Peter:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/damnyellowcap/105770.html

(which I haven't read yet myself, but I know how you like Peter!Fic)

:-)

Re: Petunia/Peter!!!!

[pauraque]

Thanks! Funnily enough, this is not the first time I've seen this pairing. Nothing new under the sun...